What Do Brits Think Of The British Empire?

Discussion in 'History' started by PinkProlific, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. PinkProlific

    PinkProlific Members

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    If you're from the UK, what do you think about the British Empire, how much do you know about it, and do you believe it was primarily a positive or negative thing?
     
  2. IMjustfishin

    IMjustfishin Member

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    i think the whole concept of a king and queen is just silly nowadays. they are not even particularly needed in the UK, they're just there for show. Americans would be outraged!!lol
     
  3. wiccan_witch

    wiccan_witch Senior Member

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    I did a lot of study of British colonialism at university. What I studied was tragic and disgraceful. British practices of land purchase, forced assimilation to British culture of the indigenous people not to mention their languages effectively being banned in many cases and being forced to English...results are still being seen today. I'm from New Zealand, and the Maori people here have a huge amount of hurt and grievance. Australian Aborigines have it even worse. Australia was settled under 'Terra nullus' meaning that there were no other people there so the land was free for settlement by the British...when of course it wasn't. India was completely stripped of its natural resources and reduced to poverty by the time the British left. As someone of British ancestry I can honestly say I'm ashamed when I think of Britain done around the world in the name of Empire.
     
  4. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Many of the features of the empire are regrettable. Slavery, which you didn't mention being one of the worst things, and a primary source of wealth for the colonialists.

    The way in which indigenous cultures were treated was appalling, in Africa, Australasia and many other places, America of course being another example.

    Also worth bearing in mind is that those who benefited from the empire were only an elite at the top of the social pile. Conditions in Britain for workers were very bad during the empire period,severe poverty was rampant,and the ill gotten gains of colonialism were appropriated by the ruling class. The same ruling class who were willing to sacrifice the lives of millions in the pointless imperial war of 1914-18.

    That said, although I regret the empire, I don't feel shame, as it was previous generations who did all that.I might as well feel shame at just being human, given all the abuses humans have carried out globally over the entire course of history.On the other hand, I am certainly not proud of this country or it's blood soaked past. I'd like to see an end to the British establishment, but they have a way of hanging on. I suspect that during the next century we will see Britain reduced further to the status of a minor and insignificant player on the world stage.
     
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  5. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    It's in the past where it should stay, but imo it is a magnificient and very intriguing past and yes, it is pointless to be ashamed of actions people in former generations did. We can learn a lot from it. We should also acknowledge it has brought the UK, the US and indirectly other western countries where we are now, which seems not that an unfortunate position. We, as societies, have progressed (a little, it's an ongoing progress if everything goes well).
    The empirical era was a phase that has brought us much good, and even the rest of the world can and is doing its advantage with some of the things we have that phase to thank for. We can not change the past, only the way we look at it. In my opinion it is stupid to look through glasses of shame and superiority (as a society/developed person) and shit on your empirical past as a whole. A nuanced perspective is better, more useful.

    Btw, I'm dutch, not british. But felt like giving my thought on the matter anyway :)
     
  6. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    If the Dutch had had their way, it might have been the Dutch empire we are discussing. :)

    Anyway, there were some positive things that came out of the empire, Indian railways for example. However for me it's tainted by the abuses, and I don't like the union jack waving mob who think the British were and are in some way superior to the rest of the world. I think actually it's that attitude left over from colonial days that fuels a lot of the anti-Europe sentiment in Britain today. There's little doubt in my mind that the empire created a xenophobic and superior attitude in the British psyche that is still alive and well today.

    I recall with dismay the sentiments in the UK press over the Falklands war for instance.

    Asmo - you confused me with the word 'empirical' - I guess you meant Imperial? I wonder, given that it was British philosophers who came up with empiricism. I don't see that as linked to empire though, other than that it formed the basis of later science and therefore technology, and it was superior technology, especially in the weapons department that enabled the empire. Maxim machine guns against the Matabele.
     
  7. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    I ment 'of the empire/time of the empire' so yeah imperial :p Thanks! Was not thinking about empiricism at all when I wrote that post...

    Most positive things that came out of the empire benefited england itself of course, not their colonies. Still, I think there is little point in turning your back to it and regard it as one big historical atrocity.
     
  8. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I don't look at it that way entirely. It was all part of an inevitable historical process. No doubt, some of those imperialists did think they were doing the right thing, spreading civilization and Christianity to the 'savages'. That was their mindset, and they had no way to move beyond that.

    I don't think actually that there's any point in having regrets over past historical periods. We have come into this world as it is now, and we have to deal with that. One way is to try to ensure that we don't just take the official version of history as the only one, and to try to have progressive attitudes ourselves. If the empire was partly about creating a unified world, we should see that the goal may be a good one, but the methods used were wrong.

    Maybe my personal interest in Indian philosophy etc is a kind of post-imperial condition, in the sense that many Indian teachers expressed themselves in English, which for me is obviously very convenient.

    On the subject of English, yours is generally very good - . I wasn't trying to pull you up there, just didn't get what you meant.
     
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  9. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Glad you asked actually, so I could clarify. Sometimes when I write in a hurry I simply use the wrong word because when taken literally it looks like the right one :p :D
     
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    English can be a confusing language, even for Brits.
     
  11. wiccan_witch

    wiccan_witch Senior Member

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    Blackbill - are you from the UK? :) I suppose the differences in our perspectives if you are, may come from my being born and brought up in a former colony. The impact of what happened to the indigenous people here in NZ is still occurring here. Maori land disputes under the Treaty of Waitangi are still a very real and ongoing thing here. Maori are vastly over represented in crime stats and health stats due to an often very low socio economic status, not to mention what I hear my fellow Pakeha (fellow European New Zealanders) saying about them sometimes when they feel there are no Maori around. Here, we can't just say 'Oh well, it's done now, and was done for the best, and I personally didn't do anything wrong, so why don't they just get over it?'. For the country to move forward as a whole, changes need to be made, and rights need to be wronged. This is happening, but slowly, and changes in attitudes will take time.
     
  12. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    funny how Balbus is always absent from these threads about Britain, but if it was "what do Brits think about America" he would have posted 6 pages by now.


    LOL
     
  13. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Yes - I'm from the UK. And I think you're right that we would have different perspectives on the after effects of colonialism. I can't say I know much about the specific situation of the Maori. But from what you say it's the same story that's repeated elsewhere where indigenous people's feel they have been displaced, and I sympathize with them. I hope you're right that attitudes are changing and things will get better in the future.

    Although I am from the UK, I'm actually only 50% genetically British, as my grandfather was Irish, and my grandmother French. So maybe because of that I don't feel as identified with the history of Britain as many Brits do. I see that Britain made great contributions in terms of science, medicine, exploration - many fields, but also that untold suffering was caused to huge numbers of people in the empire period.

    I'm all for moving ahead into the future with the attitude that we should try where we can to redress wrongs that were done in the past.
     
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  14. autophobe2e

    autophobe2e Senior Member

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    No shame about the actions of previous generations, but a recognition that the quality of life and position on the world stage that we currently enjoy were earned in deeply unethical ways should imbue us with a sense of social responsibility.
     
  15. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    It should indeed. But the sad truth is that we still have millions reading the Sun, a paper that recently described African and other migrants drowning in the Mediterranean as 'cockroaches'.
    So evidently, there's a long way to go.
     
  16. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Love these posts. They could also be in the ultimate evil empire threads. Yes, it is sometimes very relative.
     
  17. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    It's all relative. I mean that abuses occur in many cultures and nations. What varies is the scale and nature of the abuses.

    So whilst we still have a lot of post imperialist racist morons, we also have had some progress in things like banning corporal punishment and the death penalty, women's equality, gay rights and so on.

    What we're seeing at present with the situation over immigrants trying to get through the channel tunnel, is that the govt, here don't want to to apply the same standard to 'outsiders' as to the native population. I don't mean we should just have an open border, but the rhetoric used against these people has become quite vicious.
     
  18. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    We shouldn't have an open border but to say we don't take any more fugitives while they are already in Europe (so basically say it's on Italy, Greece and other countries where these fugitives' travels stagnates) is pretty sad and wrong. We are fucking both our fellow EU countries as well as these refugees over. Saying they should have stayed on the other side of the mediterrean does not work. They did cross it and many others do and are dying while trying.
     
  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I feel for those people. It seems to me that our politicians don't care if other EU countries get more than their share, and that the immigrants themselves are somehow less than human, or less than Brits anyway. Cameron recently described them as a 'swarm' - and got criticized for de-humanizing them with those comments. Evidently though , he's unrepentant.

    Anyway, as one of the biggest economies in Europe, and as a post-imperial power, I feel we should do more to help. Best thing would be to have an EU conference and decide on quotas for each country - at least as far as people who have already made it to Europe are concerned. All the right wing press here do is criticize the French whilst portraying immigrants as scroungers who only want to come here to claim benefits. They seem to have no human feeling towards these people at all.
     
  20. ozjohn39

    ozjohn39 Member

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    The British Empire no longer exists!
     

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