We've covered School shootings. Now lets tackle Chicago.

If you have read well you know we're on the same page about this. The guy already admitted he wasn't serious anymore though (not that it was needed to be proclaimed by himself, but still good). He's doing the same here. Worthy to point out to others methinks

I'm not sure why you're telling me that last thing. I hope every american will use their vote. Also the ones who disagree strongly with me or the americans I agree with.

 

You don't need to suggest that people can't think and decide for themselves. Kind of condescending. Others have made it clear how they feel about his inputs. I doubt you pointing it out will make any difference to anyone.

I feel the same way about what the Left has produced in the past 8 years or so. Rather than try and purge them, they embrace them. Gotta keep that voting base no matter what. I had hopes with Obama. I doubt I ever will again.

 

If you have garbage voting for you, you don't embrace them, you tell them you don't want their support. Trump has taken on a lot of voters I wish he didn't need to. Now he has to keep them. And I have to admit that if it weren't for them, a Republican probably would not have made it against Hillary.

 

This is also tied in with racial stigma. I believe there is a piece about this from sociologist Matthew Desmond and Mustafa Emirbayer. They said that third generation black children were actually worse off than their grandparents. It's a sad thing. The way people assimilate has to do with how well they can blend into their surroundings, like a lizard.

26 percentage points!

 

Yeah blacks are worse off now because of welfare and getting duped by democrats and people like Jessie Jackon and Al Sharpton

 

Doesn't that emulate my point?

Further we need to factor in and recognize that the same group (26%) have been given laws to favor them and programs designed to help them. Yet the other groups with no such factors still fared better.

 

Great black people...

Martin Luther King JR

Larry Elder

Thomas Sowell

Candace Owens

 

Well, yes and no. It seemed like your point was that African Americans aren't doing as well as Irish immigrants or Italians. If that was all, I'd have to say yes you're saying the same exact thing as Matthew Desmond. But I think by not saying why it's like that we leave it open to the interpretation that it was some kind of fault of the third generation African Americans. I don't want to pretend that I know why a full 26 percentage points of poverty is possible. But the textbook says it's racial privilege. Preferential treatment, historically, has been given to certain immigrants over others; perhaps because they blend easier. So, if that's what you're trying to say then I would have to agree that yes, we are saying the same exact thing.

 

Well the why part is certainly worth exploring further. And that Desmond report isn't really an observation of Chicago its a much wider result. And some times textbooks are found to not reflect reality. Kind of like the argument about agreeing that textbooks that teach Darwinism are wrong if you are pushing a Christian faith based agenda. You don't use that textbook you use the one that pushes your agenda.

I know for a fact that what they taught me in Business School textbooks, didn't really match the reality of a lot of business cultures and scenarios.

But it taught us how to evaluate a problem better than NOT having that textbook to go by.

 

I think you're missing my original point, which was that the concept of white privilege isnt anything novel or new or made up by liberals, there are examples all around the world where one ethnic group has privilege over another group. For the sake of avoiding a nitpicky argument I'll retract my use of the word majority. It depends on the group with the highest concentration of wealth and the greatest concentration of people in positions of power, it isn't as simple as who makes up the majority, I can agree with that.

 

Privilege. Lol.

I feel that's a far too common word these days. You go to school, study, get a job and live nice,, oh that's just privilages of being white ya know.

We all know how successful black people can be taking that same route, but when they do ohhh hardships and rivers were crossed.

All mumbo jumbo. You dig your own graves, you write your own history. Privilege, just a made up word for the sympathisers to use while they sit at home and post and not actually get out there and fight for what they think they believe.

 

You know I love you, Irm. But German Ozzies commenting on the US race issue is laughable.

White privilege is a thing. To the point where gay white women benefit over straight black men.

I love my country, but we're only a few steps removed from "fucked"

 

Not necessarily. Irm may not have the day-to-day experience but being removed can bring much needed perspective and objectivity.

You are right about the race issue. But Americans DID choose a black man over a woman (regardless of the color of her skin). You might break through the race wall but the glass ceiling is something else.

What everybody says. Everyone loves the US of A. Everyone's a patriot. Greatest country in the world. So proud to be American.

Pfffft.

 

Mhmm and having lived in Australia there is a relatable topic with the Aboriginals and the white Australians and so, I do have experience with this.

 

Yeah because everyone knows the Aboriginals are treated just like everyone else..

 

There's white privilege in Australia too. But just because one has knowledge of it, or firsthand or indirect experience with it, doesn't mean they get everything about white privilege in another country.
In my country we even have white privilege issues with similar ethnic groups as the USA, but there are still some big differences. One of the main differences with the US in regards of black people is that they weren't living in our homeland in the time of slavery. They came afterwards from our colonies. But because that territory was ours and those people were born there they're as dutch as anybody else. Took some time to get the dutch locals to get in touch with that. It was long perceived that because they're new in the homeland and a minority they should just shut up or 'gitt out!' to 'Africa' naturally. But they're from the dutch Antilles or Suriname. And got there because our ancestors took their ancestors by force.

I guess that would depend on the details of how it is done and what point they're trying to make. But if they would deny white privilege then in most cases yes.

 

For me personally it is the (often willful) ignorance that is the worst. It's like some prefer to wallow in their own stupidity.
Now, maybe this could be said about the racism too (it can in most cases when they use real lame and false arguments). But I like it when a seemingly racist person (or better said: an individual who happens to hold some racist convictions or opinions) can argument their point in an intelligent and sensible way. It's not like we can agree to disagree on this matter as well. Certainly on an internet forum. In real life/society it is only possible on the long term if those with a racist mindset are a minority and don't actively try to implement their mindset in society.

 

Sounds good, but first it might be in order to talk more generally about violent crime and its relation to inner city areas. You mention high crime cities where the dangerous neighborhoods are African-American: Detroit, Atlanta, etc. Presumably we won't be talking about affluent African-American communities like Forest park, Oklahoma; Hillcrest, New York; Woodmore, Mryland, etc., where they somehow don't seem to have much violence. The places you mention have inner city areas of concentrated poverty. In other high crime cities, like Salinas or San Bernadino, it would be Hispanic. In France, they'd be North African. In Germany, Turkish. Of course, only a minority in each community has a history of criminal violence, and the sizeable bodies of those minorities who live outside the high crime centers don't show a propensity for violence. Superficially, a person looking at these areas might conclude they are predominantly inhabited by racial minorities, and therefore evidence that race causes violent crime. However, a closer look casts doubt on that explanation.

The inner city areas in question are highly ghettoized. In the case of African-American high crime areas, de facto racial segregation is a reality as a result of white flight to the burbs. If we draw a line around the dangerous "high crime" areas of a city, another line around the economically depressed low income areas, and a third line around areas predominantly inhabited by racial or ethnic minorities, those areas tend to correspond to one another.. There are basically three alternative explanations: (1) socio-economic explanations: violent crime is associated with depressed economies ;(2) family-oriented explanations stressing broken-homes and absent fathers; (3) cultural explanations: violent crime is a product of defective cultural values and family dysfunction; and (4) political-legal explanations: violent crime results from bad policies, poor law enforcement, and insufficient allocations of resources to deprived communities. I happen to think all four have merit.

Socio-economic explanations. A correlation between economic adversity and crime has been recognized for a long time. Emperor Marcus Aurelius (121-180 A.D.), stated: “Poverty is the mother of crime.”. A report by the Century Foundation (2015) found that 25.2%% of African-Americans lived in concentrated poverty (census tracts with a poverty rate of 40% or more, compared with 17.4% of Hispanics and 7.5% of whites. Paul Jargowsky, "The Architecutre of Segregation", The Century Foundation (August 9, 2015). Black unemployment is 9.5%, compared to white unemployment of 4.5%. When criminal activity pays better than available non-criminal employment, blacks will be attracted to crime. The World Bank Group study found that "stagnant economic activity induces heightened homicide rates" and that the homicide rate lessens with the availability of job opportunities or rising wages.https://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Resources/What_Causes_Crime.pdf

Family breakdown explantaions. Social conservatives emphasize the relationship between family structure and violent crime. The Real Root Causes of Violent Crime: The Breakdown of Marriage, Family, and Community
Even in high crime areas, over 90% of children from stable, intact families do not become criminals, while only 10% from broken homes manage to avoid doing so. Of course, unemployment and poverty are major stressors on marriages and deterrents to marriage after a child is conceived. Government policies of terminating Aid to Families with Dependent Chilren (AFDC) aid if the social worker found a man in the house discouraged forming marital bonds. This dovetails with cultural explanations stressing minority culture.

Minority culture explanations. The phrase "culture of poverty" was coined in 1959 to describe a poverty-perpetuating value-system that develops in impoverished ( Mexican) communities. Oscar Lewis, Five Families: Mexican Case Studies in the Culture of Poverty. This was characterized by a strong feeling of marginality, of helplessness, of dependency, of not belonging." Michael Harrington developed this concept in The Other America, which showed how social institutions of exclusion perpetuated this cycle. Unlike the Mexicans in Lewis' study, the cycle for African-Americans is perpetuated by racial discrimination. More recently, the poverty culture theory has been supplemented by the "black culture" theory, which supposedly includes values contributing to violence. African-American economist and right-wing ideologue Thomas Sowell expounded this theory in Black Rednecks and White Liberals (2005). Sowell advances the interesting claim that African-Americans acquired a set of brutal values from the southern white rednecks who were their slave masters in the antebellum South, and brought them with them to the ghetto. The south was colonized by North Britons and Scotch-Irish shepherds from the border regions of Britain--rough, crude, obsessed with protecting their flocks, and prone to violence, reinforced by their role as slave owners. From this, their black slaves supposedly learned "brawling, braggadocio, self-indulgence, disregard of the future." These ideas were developed by criminologist Barry Latzer in The Rise and Fall of Violent Crime in America. But as the title of the book suggests, violent crime has generally been falling dramatically since the 1970s and 80s as black populations in cities remained constant or grew.. The homicide rate in Philadelphis fell from 31.7 per 100,000 in 1990 to 20.1 per 100,000 in 2010, while its African-American population grew from 39.9% to 43.4%. New York City's murder rate fell from 30.7%. So the cultural explanation leaves much to be desired, and provides little basis for the right-wing conclusion that those people are hopeless. I do think, though, that these cultural tendencies are there in the ghetto, especially the "gangsta" chic, and create headwinds which the churches and others in the inner city seeking improvement must constantly battle against.

Political/legal explanations. These explanations shift the focus from the minorities to the politicians, judges, and police charged with crime control. Specifically, these authorities are charged with policies, practices and attitudes allowing or exacerbating violence and crime: racial disparities in sentencing, discriminatory law enforcement, and ignoring minority-on-minority violence.
American policing is broken. Here’s how to fix it.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/wp...Manual-for-Practitioners-and-Policymakers.pdf
Police Misconduct and Civil Rights - FindLaw
15 Most Outrageous Examples of Police Misconduct in the DoJ Report on Ferguson

I was asked whether or not I'd stroll through one of these high crime minority neighborhoods preaching liberal solutions to their problems. No. Wouldn't be prudent. I value my life. I was in Chicago the day of a shooting of an African-American by police. Coming back from the grocery store, I found myself inadvertently in the middle of a Black Lives Matter demonstration. I admit my ass began to pucker, but I remained calm and walked along until I reached the door of the place where I was staying. But I won't throw up my hands and say nothing can be done, or rely on simplistic, knee jerk reactions and slogans to dismiss them. Yes, let's look at the violence problem those communities, but let's look at it from all angles, not just race.