Thinkin' About Jesus

That was invented in the Middle Ages. For literally centuries no one said anything about Judas or the Jews killing him. He's a metaphor for evil invented by the church. They are encouraging people to listen to the Pope otherwise they will be a Jewish Judas. Like most things they did all done for their own power. At the time Jewish people were an easy enemy.

 

I think that's already been done. We have a pretty good idea what the Roman empire was like, and what Palestine was like, at that time. The top 1% of the population, in league with the Romans, controlled half the wealth, seventy percent of the population lived in poverty as landless subsistence farmers, fishermen or day laborers, and 10% were on the brink of starvation. The Romans ruled at first through their vassal king, Herod the Great (the one on the throne when Jesus was born), and later divided Palestine into Judea (directly under a Roman governor, Pontius Pilate), and Galilee, under their puppet, Herod Antipas. The elite, or landed aristocracy, consisted of three main components: Herodians (Herod's family and courtiers); Hashmoneans (remnants of the pre-Roman ruling family; and the priestly elite of Sadduccees, Levites and Scribes. Dispossessed peasants had to pay their tithes to the Temple and heavy taxes to Rome, which together amounted to nearly half of their annual yield. This drove many of the peasants to banditry, which became increasingly political, aimed at the absentee landlords and Roman tax collectors.

As a result, by the time of Jesus, Palestine was a hotbed of political unrest. In 4 B.C., the rebel leaders Judas of Galilee, Simon of Perea, and Athrongaeus led independent uprisings against the Romans. These were put down and the last of the rebels crucified in the year Christ was born. Later, after Pilate became proconsul, there were three religion-related public protests against Roman policies. Then in 30 c.e. came John the Baptist, protesting Herod Antipas' marriage. John attracted a large popular following before he was arrested and beheaded. So when Jesus and His followers entered Jerusalem in a manner consistent with messianic prophecy, it's understandable that the Romans would be skitterish. The Temple cleansing incident is plausible. It struck at the authority of the Annas priestly family that controlled the Temple and the lucrative trade in sacrificial animals. The Sadducees saw Jesus as a major threat to their position, and tried Him before the Sanhedrin for blasphemy, but wanted the Romans to do the execution. Since Jesus seemed to be a troublemaker, Pilate was persuaded. After Jesus' death, the political unrest continued and culminated in a full-scale revolt against Rome in 66 c.e. after at least three of the four canonical gospels were written.

As for Judas, he appears in all four gospels as one of Jesus' disciples, and the one who betrayed Jesus--so this is not exactly a medieval invention. Judas was a common Jewish name of the time, The name "Iscariot" has been the subject of speculation. Some scholars think it sounds like "Sicarii", dagger-wielding assassins of the day, and that and the presence of Simon the Zealot in the ranks of Jesus' followers has led to speculation that the Jesus movement might have been more political than the gospel writers let on. Bisop Spong thinks Judas was intended as a metaphor for the Jews. But that would have been way before the middle ages: pre-Constantine. The notion that the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death gained ground after the Roman wars and the destruction of the Temple in 70 c.e., after which there was a major parting of the ways between Christians and Jews, and Christians were expelled from the synagogues. The theory of Jews as villains is most pronounced in the gospels of Matthew and John.
Sources:
Aslan, Zealot
Crossan, The Historical Jesus
Harris,"Messiahs", Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches

 

excussee me:

it took a bwoi minimum 48 hours , in some cases up to 4 days, before he died on the cross.

Crucification was invented to slowly kill a person.
It was the death penalty for the real bad mofos.
For inmediate death they would have stabbed or hanged or cut him.
SO----> Simple Question: How many hours was Jesus on the cross ?
Answer: 3-6 hours
Conclusion ---> jesus did not die on the cross
Christians dont read their bible . Otherwise they would know what even I know. Cause it clearly says so.
Dont wanna talk more about that .

And please stop doubting jesus´s existence.
If Jesus did not exist then Emperor Tiberius and Pontius Pilate did not exist either.

real talk

 

Your argument is flawed. Jesus is not mentioned in any sources written during his life. The earliest are those of his apostles that appear in the bible. Pilate and Tiberius appear in other contempary sources.

 

just because you have no knowledge of something does not mean that it is "flawed" .
It does not sound respectful either.
You said he is not mentioned in any other source during his lifetime? you wanna bet with me are you sure?
he IS mentioned by roman historian writers and by letters of the governour of palestine pontius pilate who wrote reports to emperor tiberius.

The evidence that jesus existed is just too overwhelming. So much so that even atheist Richard Dawkins says he existed:


and i dont want to discuss with little elementary school pupils like you anymore because you are under my level and not well educated and on top call everything "flawed". So dont reply to my comments anymore . Because I will ignore you. Bye

 

stop trolling

 

Yes.

Decades after his death.

Its unlikely those reports are real. It is already certain they're at most based on original reports. So the sources we have about Pilates reporting to Tiberius about Jesus are also written far after his death.

 

Jesus is beautiful and if it really happend like they say,I feel just aweful for that poor man..... Put on a cross and killed just because he didnt believe what they did.......

The world really is an aweful place!!

 

everytime i read this title I think of this time in Church and the priest was real energetic and he kept saying "You have to think about Jesus!" "it's all about Jesus!"

 

Jesus An Essene: Jesus An Essene

A historical account and interpretation of the Jewish Essenes 200bc-200ad may be interesting . They
my be the Poor , as in blessed are the Poor . Of the baptism . Of the healing arts . Of spiritual renewal .
So jump in the river , have a bath , soap is optional ... then patch your jeans , too , hippie . And share ,
share , share .

 

BWOI. Black woman of Influence? How many of them died on the cross? However long it took a generic average person to die on a cross (and there are no reliable statistics on that), it would be impossible to predict how long it would take a particular individual to do that. A lot would depend on the victim's state of health and stamina. Making inferences about an individual on the basis of generic statistics is an example of the ecological fallacy. Also, it's a non sequitor to say that if Jesus did not exist, Tiberius and a Roman Procurator or Prefect named Pontius Pilate did not exist. We have plenty of records about the existence of a Roman emperor named Tiberius and a Roman Procurator or prefect named Pontius Pilate. Tiberius is discussed at length by the Roman historians Tacitus, Suetonius, Cassius Dio, and Paterculus, as well as briefer mention by Pliny the Elder, Strabo, Seneca the Elder, and Christian sources, and his image was on Roman coins, busts and statues. For Pilate, we have the Pilate Stone and mention by the historian Tacitus, Philo of Alexandria, Josephus, and of course the Christian gospels. As a poor itinerant preacher from a backwater province, Jesus is known to us mainly through the testimony of his followers in the gospels, as well as brief mention by Tacitus and Suetonius, probably on the basis of hearsay from his followers. The accounts began to appear in writing decades after Jesus' death.

 

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The only reason for not taking you up on your bet would be that there might be some document written during His lifetime that hasn't turned up yet. The ones we have seem to have been written decades after Jesus is said to have died. At least that's what the leading scholars on the subject think. I'm convinced on the basis of the available evidence that Jesus did exist, but the evidence is far from overwhelming. Dawkins is hardly an authority on the subject. He should stick to biology.

 

The only non-Christian and non-biblical accounts of the existence of Christ were written by a few roman scholars and historians long after his supposed death,
and even those are mired in controversy since parts of those accounts have been obviously changed and forged by Christian scribes.

 

maybe they are fake. maybe they are real. i dont know. but there is this saying "you only see what you wanna see" and i think it applies here best

 

yes, agree.
I dont know how long it took a person to die on the cross.
But I do know that its impossible to die within 3-6 hours on the cross. ESpecially when your legs are not broken (which they did in rare cases to hasten the death) , especially when you are given something to drink during that time (which the bible says he was given a sponge soaked with ..)
also remember when they removed jesus from the cross , his 2 hanging cross neighbours, one on the right, one on the left, were not dead yet, thats what the bible says. But again christian dont read their bibles. They are busy "speaking in tongues" and dancing in churches. lmao. Benny Hinn, Jimmy Swaggart really took advantage of them.

In addition to what you said: lets not forget his mentioning in neighbouring empire´s scriptures.
And also on top of all: jesus is mentioned in jewish scriptures, jews until today know/admit that he existed, allthough they dont like him, and wish him rather to never have appeared. They see him as a "fake prophet" . And his mother as "a whore" .

I , just like you, know that he existed. Allthoug im not christian. nor religious.
And the saying "you only see what you wanna see " applies here too.
There are historical figures that are way older than jesus but we know that they existed , we even know how they looked like and how they dressed. cleopatra, julius caesar, hannibal, the first law maker hamurrabi from babylon etc. Or David and Solomon , they lived 1000 BC , but the evidence is too strong: palace still existent, mentioning in egyptian hieroglyphs, mentioning in baylonian scriptures, on coins . etc etc

 

What "mentioning in neighbouing empire's scriptures?" I don't think there is any. As for the Jews, there is mention in the Babylonian Talmud of a Yeshua ha Notsri (Jesus of Nazarath), a former disciple of the great Pharisee rabbi Perachya, who fell out with Perachya, was accused of practicing magic and leading the people of Israel astray, and was tried and executed for blasphemy. By the time these passages appeared, the breach between Jews and Christians had become a irreparable, so the discrepancies in portrayals between the gospels and the Talmud are like Fox vs CNN. The Jewish account may simply be propaganda--or not.

.

Of course, and they were mostly kings and (in the case of Hannibal) a general who had Rome quaking in its boots. They made sure that their existence was commemorated on monuments, inscriptions, and coins. There are certainly lots of ancient accounts of great religious teachers like Moses, Zoroaster and the Buddha, but the accounts of them were written centuries after their deaths and some scholars think they may have been legendary. Even the existence of the Prophet Muhammad has been disputed by Islamaphobes like Robert Spencer, although I think unconvincingly.

 

you know a lot. are you a theologan?
... and lets not forget at that times people were memorizing a lot. They were passing on the legacy orally more than in written form. To me, and i was analyzing that a lot, it is impossible that people have been making up stories about david,solomon,moses,jesus,abraham etc throughout history. In areas where peoples IQ are very high. And be consistent in it. for many thousand years. uh uh. just show me another parallel example of that? its impossible.
regarding muhammad: yes of course robert spencer is paid to do that, its his job to diffame mohammed.
But to say he did not exist is like saying Bill Clinton did not exist. I mean....come on man, evidence everywhere. I dont have the time now to write all down....

 

"These men," says Josephus, speaking of the Essenes, "are despisers of riches, and so very communicative as raises our admiration." We might almost think he is praising those whom Jesus taught in these words, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." We will still quote the historian last cited, as his description so exactly tallies with the precepts of Jesus and the customs of his followers. Thus he continues to write:—"Nor is there any one to be found among them who hath more than another; for it is a law among them, that those who come to them must let what they have be common to the whole order, insomuch, that among them all there is no appearance of poverty or excess of riches, but every one's possessions are intermingled with every other's possessions; and so there is, as it were, one patrimony among all the brethren."

 

Stauros

 

^
Bless you!