The Bible, the Papacy and the Church

Thanks for your honestly on this matter and I may have been a little harsh in my reply, so I apologize if it seemed so. I did try to tone it down some.

 

Just a thought on the confession of sins, although it would be hard to prove, I get a sense that there is to be an openness to confession of sins that would go beyond, just confession to God and/or confession to an older man in the congregation.

 

confession box is still not in the bible.

 

Neither is Scripture Alone.

Matt. 28:20 - "observe ALL I have commanded," but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves "Bible alone" theology.

Also, the very arrival at canon was not resolved by looking at Scripture. It was through a different revelatory process. This fact also disproves that Scripture alone is needed for solving theological issues.

Just because it isn't in the bible, doesn't mean it is bad or wrong.

 

That does not necessarily follow. Yes, not all that Jesus taught is in the Bible, but that does not mean that all Jesus commanded is not or that everything we need to know for salvation is not in the Bible

This again isn't necessarily so. If you mean you need God's help to resolve theological issues, yes, I agree but if you mean something outside God and the Bible, I'm not sure I would agree.

Yes, but it doesn't mean it's good or right either.

 

Don't worry.
Not too harsh.

 

Sacred Tradition, Papal infallibility, council infallibility (a council of bishops) all come from the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

personally no.

 

Neither are Church buildings.

We should either worship in a synagogue, house, or temple.

 

i like Jewish customs

 

Jesus does not appear to be a great fan of traditions and how are to know these things come from guidance of the Holy Spirit? Just because the Catholic church says so, ain't going to cut it, because they would seem to have a vested interest in haveing people believe them.

 

Actually Christians in the Bible met in buildings many times so it seems that the Bible indicates there is nothing wrong with meeting in buildings or even meeting outdoors without a building for that matter. Jesus even taught in synagogues so it would appear he had no objection to buildings that had a religious purpose.

 

So does everyone else. Your vested interest is in saving our bodies from the destruction, is it not, and defending the truth of Jesus Christ. My vested interest is Catholic apologetics (and so also soul saving et cetera).

My point with the Church thing is that there is not explicit guidelines for establishing a religious building (you used this argument against the setting up of icons and statues in Churches). Even the synagogue (if I understand my Jewish Literature) was prescribed not in the OT, but in other writings?

 

no cause the Pope says so and that the BOTTOM LINE!

 

Quoted for truth.

Again, quoted for truth. Here, here!

Strict interpretation or not, read Commandment number two again. ""You shall not make for yourself a graven image". The act of making the statue is a sin.

True. Everyone on the planet is a sinner. Anyone who says otherwise is committing a sin by lying!! But the Lord forgives our sins if we give ourselves up and pray.

Please show me in the bible where the Pope is given infallibility? No human can be infallible and the Pope is just a human being. I know of no biblical quotes that say opposite, correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yes, it's true everybody has an agenda but things get a little different when you start saying you should be believed because the Holy Spirit says so. In that case it would be nice to have a little more proof than; "because I said so".

Yes, I agree that there are no explicit guidelines for religious buildings, except for the Tabernacle. But as I mentioned, the Bible does say Christians gathering in buildings, which would seem to indicate that it's okay to do so but I have yet to read in the bible were Christians went into a confessional. That's not to say that makes them wrong but you were the one that made the comparison between the two and I'm just saying religious building have some Biblical support, confessionals have none.

If I remember, my argument against setting up of icons and statues in Churches was that there may be a temptation to misuse them so why put a possible stumbling block in front of your brothers, when the bible doesn't say to use them in the first place.

 

I believe you are correct, JW's seem to be very picky about what they choose to believe as doctrine. They feel that what ever they believe should have firm Bible backing and if they find they believe something that is not backed by the Bible, they will change what they believe until it conforms more fully to what the Bible says.

 

In that sense I am the same. I have to have full biblical backing or I cannot conform to a belief, any belief. That's more of a fire-protection system for the afterlife if you get what I mean!!

 

Yes, you're right. But an important thing to remember is that he expects US to accept his full forgiveness when we ask for it (as promised) and make that/those sins a non issue from that point on in our lives... Faith baby.... it's a beautiful thing.

Justa a little addition..


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it doesn't matter why Moses was commanded to make a form (image) of a serpent, the point is that the Decalogue doesn't forbid any image making (do you take photographs?) but the worship of those images.

This is irrelevant to your point, but only strengthens mine. Solomon's icons and statues were pleasing until he started actually worshiping the forms and other gods. This is what displeased god.

The point is that the only image Catholics worship is Jesus, who is the image of the living invisible God.

I have already posted proof of the need to confess to another person, Jesus said of the apostles "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained". This is Biblical evidence that the priest can absolve us of our sins, from the authority of Christ, from the authority from the Father. Jesus gave the apostles the same authority that he had from the Father (as the Father sent me, I also send you), which includes the forgiveness of sins.

St John is talking about the revelation he received and wrote down. Not the entirety of Scripture.