Support the Troops?

Saw Patricia Hess of the AP being interviewed by Brian Lamb on CNN Friday.
Interview covered The War, The Troops and The People of Iraq.

Hess is in Iraq constantly, had great insights in the interview and some
very emotional near break down moments. Lamb took a few phone calls.
Hess was very giving in her assesments and reflections.

Appreciated that the issue is more complex than previously thought.

 

To the person posting the pictures of injured people: who are these people in the pictures? Are they.....



victims of American military atrocities?

victims of Hussains atrocities?

victims of Iranian atrocities?
vicitims of world wide insurgents atrocities?

vicitms of Taliban atrocities?
victims of terrorist bombings in Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Philippines, Eritria, Sudan, Indonisia, Palistine, Isreal, Lebanon, Algieria, Spain, England, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, Jordan?
If not, why are you not also posting them as well? Why not also pictures of Pol Pots killing fields, Stalins work, Hitlers work, Fidels work, Sebian atrocities, Columbine High School victims, Zimbabwe, Angola, Liberia or Son of Sam victims?
You Post pictures and allude them to actions of Americans only. Don't you think that is dishonest?

 

Oh My God...do we have an ego here or what!?!? You da Webmaster???? You're right...you're NOT a person if that's the attitude you take. What a hypocritical, self-rightous work of art you are! YOU vouch for every one of the pictures to be victims of American Atrocities???? Who the Fuck are you and how do you prove it? I dare you to leave these postings on the site for others to see the type of people like you that are controlling this web-site! And to say "Got it" like I'm suppose to be afraid of opposing you or something? Your obvious anti-American bias taints and totally goes contrary to the "speak your mind freely" banner you hypocrites tout! I hope more people find out just what kind of people run this site! Your statements shows the type of people who run this website are intent on brainwashing people towards an Anti-American, pro-drug agenda. Now what kind of people would do that? If you don't leave this on the site and choose to ban me it just proves my point! Got it?

 

Alot of you people don't get it. There are deaths on both sides of the fence.

You can argue how the war in Iraq is wrong, but you can't not give your support to the troops on the basis that "we started it"! This is the consequences of war and we are all victims of these atrocities!

For Christ sake, you're arguing over the trivial things when you fail to see the death of people; only the death of those who you think should be cared about.


British deaths.

 

I don't support the troops any more than I support the politicians who started this war. Neither do I support al Qaeda or any other Islamist or Bathist groups operating in Iraq. What I do recognise, however, is the fundamental right of the oppressed to resist their oppressor. Unfortunately that will mean British and American deaths until the politicians have the good sense to pull them out which, I would say, is the best way to support them. A British life is worth no more to me than any other....

 

L.A. - The sane, civilized people of the world would agree with you 100%, but you totally fail to address how those same people must deal with the dark side of humanity. A hell of a lot of good, decent and innocent people were being slaughtered in Iraq before we got involved. That was OK? And it comes down to those same sane, civilized people HAVING to do something in an attempt to stop those who were killing the innocent. And I emphasis HAVING because in my world no decent human being will stand by while another is brutalized without intervening, even at the cost of one's own life! Obviously there are people out there who can! And the sane, decent military people who have died, who chose NOT to stand by, were volunteers who dedicated their lives to stopping that killing. The last two posts above are typical of the limited view points many people have about how to handle the evil that exists in the world. When it comes to Al Quiada and the like, you don't have to 'support' the ideas or ideals of any group so long as that group is intent on forcing their way of thinking on you, and the key point is 'whether you understand it or not'. Don't be so darn naive. Uninvolved people are often forced to defend when faced with aggression. Some of you seem to think there is room to debate whether you should defend you and yours or not against brutal aggression. Lordy, people! Millions have died before they got the chance to find out that aggressors don't like to debate! On the other hand, others of this world, myself included, will resolutely match evil aggression with fierce resistance and even resort to pre-emptive action if necessary. It's the pre-emptive part that some people have trouble with. I don't! I understand it, and evil people won't get the chance to work their evil against me or mine if I see a need to prevent it and have the capability to do it.

 

Peace - That has got to be one of the most wishy-washy statements I have ever read! You support the oppressed, but not those troops working to help the oppressed against the oppressor; you don't support terrorists or death squads, but you also don't support the troops trying to stop them from killing the oppressed. And you also want the troops to leave so that nothing will stand between the oppressed and the oppressors. Do you see anything maybe just a little bit wrong with your stance?

 

Time, so why don't you go to Zimbabwe, China, or the Congo if you're so concerned about other humans welfare? The war isn't resolving anything, and we went the wrong way about doing it.

It was like we saw a mother and her child arguing in the street, and instead of resolving things in a sane manner we just get a car and run them both over.

 

L.A. Matthews is right.

If people who claim that this fucking war was just to help the Iraqis from being oppressed by Saddam, then why the fuck didn't we do it earlier? Oh yeah... we were HELPING SADDAM! I forgot!

Or why aren't we in other nations who are being oppressed by their fascist leaders? Oh yeah... because we do BUSINESS with those nations and HUMAN RIGHTS sure can't get in the way of BUSINESS.

It all makes me fucking sick.

 

Skip, I hope you see, that the tenats of "A True U.S. Patriot" are sound and from a true patriotic view, invalidate our involvement in Iraq.
I think what we need to do rather than revile the misguided youth that have enlisted in the armed forces is attempt to educate them, as well as unseat the criminal leaders currently running the country, then we need to turn our attention to retooling the machine, the "establishment".
But what is the establishment? Is it the authority structure of the modern USA? No, I would assert that it is not. Is the establishment 60 years old? 100 years old? 200 years old? or even 6000 years old? No it is none of these, it is approximately four billion years old since the first replicating molecules began forming the basis of all life on our precious planet, thereby establishing "Survival of the Fittest" as the "system" for success.
Having live in as an active participant in the counter culture of the 60's I know that one of the principles upon which there was universal agreement within that counterculture was, that love could conquer all. I still believe that but, and this notion I suspect would meet with much and vehement oppisition, universal love is not our nature, down deep, deeper than consciously accessable our nature is ruthless selfishness, for we are gene machines, and survival of the fittest is the established system upon which all of our behaviors were built.
Free'd consciousness is the answer, but that consciousness is yet bound to our animal nature, only in acknowledging that truth can we be free, for it is a truism that the truth shall set you free. It is an ugly truth, but proceeding in denial of it is destined to make any efforts to establish peace and love as the guiding principles of modern human behavior, fail. They failed in the 60's and they will fail forever until we acknowledge this truth. I would maintain that our sons and daughters that have been misguided into the military ought be pitied not reviled and educated not shunned, it is not their fault, for freewill is a myth, until it is acknowledged that an ancient established system is actually at the root of all our behavior.
What do you think Skip. I have been desperate to find somewhere that this basic message could be delivered to a people who would give a damn, and finding a community of people who would still call themselves hippies, I hope could be fertile ground in which to plant this notion.
Peace, love and fullfillent my brother.
sine cera

 

I do pity the poor pawns of our nation...
And they need to be educated and I've tried that...they don't listen.
All they hear is that they get to shoot guns and kill, and maybe even get some glory...
I think the army forgets to tell them that they also get to go home as amputees...

I like the "Sine Cera" part...few would know what that means...

 

Miss Minx,

It is you that isn't listening. If you watched the demonstrations recently in Washington DC where there were groups from both sides of the war question, the numbers in support of the troops AND their mission were three times the numbers of those against. Would you say that's a statement of how most people in this country feel? Those there in support were not there because they are 'pawns', but free men and women who understand the need for individuals and our nation to have the will, the absolute and uncompromising will to stand up for the very fundamental human freedoms and principles that America was created on. What you may not realize is that the words in our Declaration of Independence were meant not just for the people who lived in the so-called New World, but to every single person on the planet. Read it. It was a truly universal declaration. And it wasn't just directed at the monarchy of England, but towards every form of government or dictatorship man can contrive. Those same beliefs are as true today as they were back then, and they must be gained and protected in the same way. I wish it were different, you wish it were different, but not everyone in this world feels the same way as you and I. We must work for universal peace, but we must also be prepared to act decisively against the aggressor in a manner that is effective. Do you understand or have ever witnessed the brutality they are capable of wrecking on others? Your seemingly selfish attitude of 'freedom just for me' is NOT my brand of freedom! You pity the poor pawns of our nation? How arrogant! And how ignorant of how others feel and what they value. You use defeatist words where others use their lives to pursue TRUE changes for others less fortunate in their situations. You also seem to think that all one has to do to stand up against a brutal dictator is just say NO! Freedom and liberty are often gained and maintained in brutal fashion from brutal regimes. And you have the ignorance to wrongly pre-judge as 'pawns' our citizens who wish to help oppressed people by bearing that brutal fight it takes to free others from tyrants? Missy, you have a lot to learn about our world outside of the Barbi Doll world you seem to want to live in. I figure you're big enough to write an opinion that condemns other people's efforts to free people, then you ought to be big enough to hear that you are part of the problem of the ignorant of western nations. You need to seriously educate yourself before you pass judgement on others when it comes to who's actions are to be deemed useful and helpful and who's actions are useless and dangerous. The first thing you might learn is how prevention is the best cure! Thanks for listening to my side of things. I look forward to reading what you have to say! Ciao!

 

Thank you good lady, certainly wouldn't want to be a "crack pot".

sine cera

 

hmmm Tide or Boraxo.
This argument, more of a personal attack rather than an honest assesment of anothers' opinion, is nevertheless unsupportable. No where in the DoI is there any indication that we are to be the worlds policemen. Wasn't it Washington that warned of involvement in foreign affairs? Further we have absolutely no business attempting to right other governments when our own stands so clearly in contradiction to our own constitution. What really amazes me is that you can accuse this sister of ignorance and arrogance, when you use such aggresive language, to assert ill informed opinion. George Bush and most of his administration could not give a damn about the ideals upon which the once United States of America were founded on, our continued presence in Iraq is about oil, period.
sine cera

 

Neo-cons have run out of rational arguments to support their position, so they, like Ann Coulter have resorted to name calling and personal attacks.

A reflection of the quality of leadership emanating from the White House?

 

While I feel sorry for the troops that have to do the dirty work of killing other human beings and destroying a country so that the big oil companies continue posting their record profits, they like the Bush-bots who act like mindless automatons are in effect in collusion with Herr Bush in the continuation of this protracted killing, maiming and murdering going on in this sad Iraq war.