Support the Troops?

I come from a longtime military family and currently two cousins are serving in Afghanistan, but guess what to me they are performing their jobs, they are not heros, they signed up to do a job. Just like firefighters, sales clerks and gravediggers do.

I think it's been too long since the great wars and Vietnam, the new generations are just looking for a new source of celebrity idol worship. John Wayne is dead. Get over it. It's not going to help the young people that have signed up and will return home broken and undersupported by the VA. Where will your hero worship be when you see them muttering to themselves in the streets and living under bridges.

 

Where did you come from? My posts were in response to the poster advocating that we blame the troops, spit on them, etc.

Your Jr High insults are not worth the space.

The killing in Iraq is not being done by US troops, it is being done by Iraqis blowing each other up. The US is now sitting in a civil war. GW Bush's ineptitude has now got us stuck where we cannot so easily and without consequence withdraw, as was the case in Vietnam.

The troops did not foresee nor create this war. Bush like Nixon before him uses troops to further the geopolitical aims of his corporate cronies, that is not news.

Verbal trashing of the troops is irresponsible given who they are, the circumstances under which they enlisted, etc. Many who ended up in the Iraq War had enlisted when Clinton was sending troops to end genocidal bloodshed in Bosnia and E. Timor.

And I repeat it is a waste of time to push an anti-troop stance when that will quickly TURN OFF most Americans very rapidly and I would think if there was any SINCERITY in your radicalism you would wish to convince the populace...power to the people, right?

I think many of you need to read Michael Moore on the topic of the USA Left's inability to relate to the working class. I can't remember the title or reference of that article...he speaks to the sterility of the Left which can embrace every radical faction but cannot relate to the very workers they claim to represent, the exploited, the masses...

From those masses come the troops.

 

Right on brother. I managed to evade drafting and was active in the antiwar movement. Many of my comrades there were vets who came back as you describe yourself. You and they are my brothers. I am now seeing Nam vets still suffering the effects and these are good people who did not deserve this. I'm damned sure not going to turn my back on some kid with no legs who comes back from Iraq knowing the war was a farce and has to face his life in a chair.

 

I think you are being very naive with that comment.

 

You are absolutely correct. In a volunteer army, soldiers signed up to do a job. Many have definitions of what a hero is. A hero to me is somebody that puts their life or safety on the line to help or save the life of another. This does not have to be a soldier. It could be a policeman, a fireman, or Wesley Autrey. People who act in order to save another, disregarding their own personal safety. There are many soldiers in this category as well, and anybody who denies that there are a large number of soldiers that join the military because of this reason, they have not spent any time around military personel. (Not directed at you Gardener).

Just a side note. Here is a good example of the good will of the American people. On January 29 a rehab center for wounded troops opened up at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio, Texas. Ordinary families and school children raised this money for the largest and most expensive facility built on private donations. There was one large anonymous contribution of $22.5 million. Apparently these people support the troops, and I commend them for that.

 

I've read about that rehab center. It's great that individuals came through to fill the need. Part of me wishes it wasn't in Texas. And I hope the sole focus isn't to rehabing amputees to reenter combat. But even so it fills a need.

 

So the fuck what? Hamas doesn't do shit for me but my country does. What makes any of you think that if we lay down our arms and retreat with-in our borders it will stop effecting us? It won't. Wars suck, uh yea. We live in the real world though not fantasy. If we stop fighting we will be overtaken and I damn sure don't want to live in a Muslim ruled country. So yep I support my country and the soldiers who are brave enough to fight for us all. They have the power to stop blowing shit up anytime they want and live under a freely elected government. Not a bad deal for them. Until then they can send all the crazy fucks they want to die in Iraq. It keeps them from coming here.

 

I haven't posted or followed much at this website in a long time although I used to do so alot.

I haven't read most of this thread, just enough to get the impression that there's apparently unnecessary disagreement between paleopeasant and Skip, which is too bad because they're both basically good guys and both have important points with which I degree. It's especially unfortunate because it means the sapping of energy away from where it really needs to be directed i.e our common efforts to terminate a counterproductive war.

I offer the following comments in the hope that it will bring about rapprochement.

The term "troops" is just like any other common denomination. It's not justifiable to prejudge individuals by the group to which they belong in most cases. Certainly Skip I think you would agree that there are some if not many among the troops who are really good and innocent individuals, at least as much as most of us, who find they have gotten themselves in a bad situation really unintentionally and for unfortunate socioeconomic reasons among others. And there are some "bad" among the troops no doubt as in any group. We don't want to alienate or dispense what might be perceived as gratuitous hostility toward those who are good individuals. In fact we don't even want to do that as regards the bad. What we want is to get everyone to see the light and be on the right side.

At the same time there is a real problem with the proclamation "Support The Troops." This is a political rhetorical propaganda tool used to potent effect by the unscrupulous to paint others into a corner -- a corner where the latter need to use their brains and break out of it. Obviously support for troops cannot be unconditional. Obviously one cannot support on a rational or patriotic or any other basis people including troops when they are doing wrong things or persist in stupid or counterproductive missions ordered by incompetent superiors.

Obviously the thing to do is not blame those who have little control over their own fate but to take action against those making wrong decisions.

The trick aspect obviously about the phrase "Support The Troops " is it can be used to portray that by saying or doing anything that does not promote a war effort one is to blame for harming the troops. The way out of this rhetorical trap is to forge ahead with cutting funding and all other legitimate antiwar activities and make it clear that if any harm befalls the troops THEN it is the fault of those in charge not responding to the current situation and keeping or placing the troops in harm's way. If one does not proceed in this manner one ends up in a situation where one is obliged to support any and all military activites at all times and to all extents. If one accepts "Support The Troops" unconditionally it means carte blanche for any and every element of any military action undertaken by any incompetent chief executive.

In my view this thread needs to end so you two good guys Skip and paleopeasant can coordinate your energies and keep working toward the end of a war where US involvement is neither in the national nor international interest.

 

Well said SDS.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-28-female-amputees-combat_x.htm

 

The beloved media of my country has turned against me. It has become the tool of the powerful to help meet their agenda. You have a choice, mindless distraction or yellow journalism. I'm just saying the news isn't on to keep me informed it is own to sell ad space to huge corporations.

My thoughts on this post are this. The "Poor youth without options" line doesn't really wash when a black youth steals or deals, so it can't be used for the troops since they are the same set of guys.

I'm realizing I CAN'T support the troops any further because to do so is against my beliefs. This post is helping me get there too. My beliefs are that some truths are self evident, like the one that all men are created equal.

To support the troops i have to deem two sets of people lessor tham myself. The soldier that has to do the killing that I feel is beneath me, and the soldier that I want to have killed.

The only way to support the troops is to go and lay down cover fire for them. Waiting for them to come home mangled is to say they are now better than anyone else. They wouldn't need special centers if we diverted the war money to national health care

EDIT/P.S.

I walked away and realized something, supportting the troops is easy to do because you don't have to dosomething. I need to find some active way to help these guys come back home.

 

You mean how they taught our enemies we could be defeated if they hid behind civialians and then progandized their deaths? They helped to create the popularity of this type of fighting around the world. Yea for them.

 

Exactly the reason that the War in Iraq created what is now called "The Insurgents." Iraq used to have a fine infrastructure. Yeah, Saddaam was a bad guy, no one disagrees with that, but he has his doppalgangers in the US government, as well. The infrastructure, in which most Iraqis had food, clothing, electricity, running water, jobs ect was DESTROYED by the War. So, young men, who probably never thought about it before, became what are now called "Insurgents." Can we blame them? The Q'Raan said, more than a thousand years ago, "The most dangerous enemy is he who has the least to lose." The US has CREATED an enemy, by taking away what the Iraqis had in this war. An "enemy" which certainly didn''t exist before this ridiculous war.

I wouldn't spit on anyone,(but I would make sure all my kids get psychiatric or medical exemptions if their CO work won't keep them out of a draft) but I DO agree the ONLY way to "support" our Troops (aka, people who choose to join the military, with the UNDERSTANDING that if a War came about, THEY would be the first to go, and the first to lose legs, arms, eyes and lives) is to bring them home. Also, Education to these people about just WHY they were "sent" there, WHO they are actually working for (It ain't the US People) and WHY they are in the Military in the first place (Hint: not to "protect us from Terrorists") needs to be done. As obvisously, these people do not understand what most 5 year olds do when asked "What does a soldier do?" "He goes to war and kills people and gets killed and dies like this "AUGHGHGHGGH!!!"" NO ONE needs to act surprised, when they lose a leg or worse in WAR. What did they expect would happen? Five year old children KNOW what happens in War. How do grown men and womyn claim they "didn't know?" We do not "have a job to finish" as the "reason" for being in Iraq changes with the Wind. End it now. Bring everybody home.

The homes for the injured soldiers, I would like to add, are NOT funded by the US Goverment. They are from a private donation. The USA can't even take care of it's own wounded. Time to bring everyone home, leave enough money and maybe engineers in Iraq to at least get the water running and the electricity going, and have those who STARTED this damn atrocity face charges on War Crimes.

Amen.

 

Well i say you guys in Usa should go to streets and say to your president GET OUR TROOPS TO HOME! NOW!

You should not go to army in any situation and you should make those soldiers to shame that they are killing people...

And what we can do in Finland (or in every other country). We should also get to the street and support your street activity. And what we have say to our Goverment... Say to that fucking Bushman that We WILL not accept that you are killing PEOPLE!

 

I have to say I support the troops and care about 9/11 or I'll get in trouble . If you don't care or feel indifferent, you will get in trouble. cmon. Yes, it sucks what happened on 9/11, but people die in that way EVERYDAY around the world. There's bombings everyday! They were rich anyway ... well, maybe not the fire fighter's, but why would you risk your life for a bunch of rich capitalists anyway? hm My emotions change on the issue ... if I had a family member die, I'd probably feel another way, but ... I knew noone! And al the coverage it had has really desensitized me.

The spouses are now out and having sex with new people, so lest us not feel sorry for them too much. I can't speak my mind or I get in trouble ... it's like that in other forums, .... but would you prefer if I just faked it and said ..yes, ohh godd such a tragedy.. what will I do now, I must now support invading Saddam Hussein, a President of a soverign nation that had nothing to do with it.. ohh gawd yea!!! fuck the truth... *sarcasm*