Support the Troops?

No, the side with the most will power wins.

 

so this is the ultimate battle of evil versus eviller. Who will win American greed and zealotry versus uhhhhhh muslim greed and zealotry.

Ok this war is about what? If it is to make the muslims embrace our brand of democracy then we will never win. You can never make a person BELIEVE in something you can only make them obey.

Will power will only win in wars where the object is to erase a people..... and to do that we must have supperior numbers.

We should consult with russia before we battle with muslims in their home lands.

 

we root for wars the way we root for a team in the supper bowl. You want the team you grew up supporting to win wether they are the best or not. If it is not your team you watch just to enjoy the human spectacle.

We are such F#c%ing romans we just like a good blood bath, in my oppinion, to keep us from having to focus on the hard work of advancing ourselves as a species on the whole and not just our countries in which we reside.

 

No, there is no devil involved so no evil Vs evil. Who wins is still up in the air on this one. It won't bring about an end to either side.

It is not about getting them to obey. People want the American culture for the most part. The ones that don't are the religious leaders who don't want to lose power. That is why the try so hard to keep American influence out. If you think changing a country over time is impossible then I suggest you look to Japan, Germany and South Korea for starters. By the way the transformation took much longer then 5 years but oh how Americans are impatient now a days. We don't need to change their minds. All we really need to do is introduce our culture to the youth in a society without restricted communications. They will do the rest but yes we have to hold on to it so that different thugs with guns don't take it.

As for what this war is about. It is about showing that America will not just lay down like the UN. We will continue to look after our interests in the world and protect them as necessary to ensure our own future. Including taking out where necessary people trying to work against our interests or trying to kill us.

 

Except much more is at stake here then a mere game. The romans were overthrown by war lets not forget and were replaced with new rulers.

The only way this is possible is to create a one world government. Do you support this? Would it be possible without war?

 

I do not believe that you are asking this question out of sincerity. However I will answer your question with a question. Does Osama bin Laden devote his life to terrorism for the money? Did Khalid Sheikh Muhammad? Ramsi Yousef? Do white supremist groups commit hate crimes for the money? Does the Earth Liberation Front commit terrorist acts for the money? Are you starting to see the connection?

These are just 14 of the known terrorists involved in 9/11. Engineers, Architects, students. Many had degrees and many also had some form of higher education. Are you saying that terrorism and martyrdom are the only way these terrorists could keep their familiy alive.

Osama Muhammed Awad bin Laden-degree in Management and Economics at the King Abdul Aziz University
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed-degree in Mechanical Engineering
Ramzi Ahmed Yousef-degree in Mechanical Engineering
Mohamed Elamir awad al-Sayed Atta-degree in architecture, held a pilots license
Ziad Samir Jarrah-was studyingaerospace engineering at the University of Applied Sciences in Hamburg, held a pilots license
Waleed M. al-Shehri-studying to become a teacher, held a pilots license
Marwan Yousef al-Shehhi-received a military scholarship and was studying at university, held a pilots license
Abdul Aziz al-Omari-he had graduated with honours from high school, attained a degree from the Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud University
Satam al-Suqami-law student at the King Saud University
Mohand al-Shehri-student at Imam Muhammed Ibn Saud Islamic University
Majed Mashaan Moqed-student at King Fahd University
Ahmed Abdullah al-Nami-student at King Khaled University
Saeed al-Ghamdi-student at university
Said Bahaji-studying Electrical Engineering

There are upper, middle, and lower class terrorists, just as their are upper, middle, and lower class soldiers.

These pictures illustrate EXACTLY why coalition forces are still in Iraq. Everyday insurgents and terrorists are causing horrific deaths of innocent civilians, just like the ones you post. These are the same people that coalition forces are fighting in Afghanistan. The ones that detonate car bombs in crowded markets, kidnap and murder doctors and teachers, destroy hospitals, schools, and infrastructure.

 

Two things that cause war are:

1) Thinking YOU are right and everyone else is wrong.

2) Making sure THEY know it.

And remember, one person's "freedom fighter" and is another person's "terrorist" and vice versa.

I respect DEFENDING oneself and family, etc., but history shows that Uncle Sam's extra long nose is usually the leading factor of our conflicts.

History is always written by the winner.

 

That's amusing that you think I need a history lesson from you. You posted that, completely missing the point...but then lacking an argument that's what's left.

I said that CLINTON used USA forces to help people...you respond with the history of USA involvement in Haiti...the duplicity is obvious. GW Bush's involvement in Haiti was despicable. The point was that it is POSSIBLE to use the military forces for good. Clinton did that. Whatever the Dutch did in Bosnia, you did not answer the question of why we should spit on the USA troops who were there and DID stop the killing...

You can roll your eyes and play the smartass, but the point is made. If you're so aware of the necessity to fight the system in some meaningful way, then shut up about the troops and deal with the power structure. It is SO dilettante to sit pompously criticizing some workingclass grunt who goes into the Army. You have been unable to defend your anti-troop stance, as I showed above. Tell us all now just what you can do about this...spit on a returning soldier? Call workingclass people "greedy"?

If not for US troops, the Indonesian govt would still be torturing and killing the Timorese. I'm waiting to hear why these troops should be spit upon.

For those who want to see an improvement in the behavior of the US govt...get out and make sure a REPUBLICAN is not elected in 2008. That would be a start, then we can work from that. Bring the troops home and make sure the govt doesn't forget about them after a few years, after having sent them to Iraq to come home, thousands of them, missing limbs. Make sure they get medical care and what they need.

The Vietnam Vets I get to watch now getting old and they were not dealt with, they were not cared for, they were not even welcomed home, and it sucks. If you support that, you suck.

 

Why are people arguing on this one? Nothing is worth even one death of one child

Nothing in this universe

Why has the vision of the value of human life decreased so hugely?

 

Obviously you are neither very bright nor well educated. The POINT was about behavior of US troops in Haiti under CLINTON. You avoid that because you're wrong... and you have no argument.

You have proven yourself in inane, inept and impotent dilettante. Does talking this radical fake bullshit get you laid? If so, that is ALL it accomplishes.

And then you claim I have responsibility for the world's problems? FU, boy. Say that to my face and you'll have to take responsibility for your ignorant irresponsible blather.

Grow up, little boy. You are a poser and a fake. You accomplish nothing. You are a joke. Go consume something.

 

lol, i do hope that wasnt aimed at me...because for a start im female, secondly the death of children is not fake and protesting it is not radical, and thirdly my point is relevant in this discussion about troops, seen as theyre the ones doing the killing and all...

If it wasnt aimed at me then im pretty sure whoever its aimed at was being neither fake nor radical either...but well see...

P.s-you do sound oh so angry and bitter, by the way...maybe you should comsume something. Like Kalms pills

 

....................................................................................................
The intervention in Haiti to replace R. Cedras with J. Aristede is a minature version of the Iraq adventure. Certainly Gen.Raoul Cedras posessed no WMD's
and was not threatening any other nations.

If all of our principaled activists and journos has raised
the appropriate questions about the Hatii adventure,
it would have left usefull markers
which would have restrained the impulse to "fix things" in Iraq.

Instead The activist community "circled the wagons" around President Clinton.
This left in place, a template for Bush to follow.


iggy:

 

Gotta call you on this one Skip. American Soldiers are not the equlivent of
people who strap a bomb on thier children and send them out
to blow up pizza parlors, discotecks and buses.

Sometimes it seems that a horrific death is normal to people in the middle east.

I read about the horrific death in your City also, filmakers, gay politicans
stabbed in the streets with a letter left on the body.
Americans are only a part of this problem.


:beatdeadh

 

This seems to be cynicism obscuring reality. Haiti was an "adventure"? The issue was not WMD's, the issue was bodies in the streets, the Tonton Macoute running amok under Cédras' leadership, and a democratically elected President prohibited from taking office. Clinton's military action was far from a blueprint for oil companies invading Iraq!

Given that the USA is a superpower, a fact we must live with, we can only hope that it would turn its power to good. Clinton was attempting to do that. Carter was attempting to do that by using human rights as a criterion for foreign military aid. The blueprint for Iraq was in countless other takeovers and overthrows by the USA govt, from Chile to Iran. These are the actions we must decry, not when finally a President (Clinton in this case) does the right thing and attempts to implement PEACE through intelligent use of the military.

Clinton's record is not perfect in this regard (aspirin factory in Sudan, bombing of Serbia) but far better than any Republicans I can think of.

 

Many of the US soldiers are poor kids from impoverished areas where they have been grossly undereducated by underfunded school systems. They are fed the crap propaganda that the military is a chance to make their lives better. Many are just poor,dumb kids who have little choice. To bad mouth them is as asinine as it is to condemn the counterpart kids in any poor undereducated country. I wish they had alternatives that they could see and access. Many don't and true, many fall for the yay, rah, kill, bullshit that is advertised by the rich. Rather than to condemn these kids, it makes more sense to educate them, turn them into allies and voters. In the 60's I was drafted, a young, dumb, farm kid without a clue. I asked to be a medic so I could at least help people. I was trained on an M60 machine gun and told, "in a firefight they zero in on the sound of your weapon, you'll be lucky to make over 3 minutes before you're killed. Good Luck." WTF! What a completely chickenshit thing to do to a kid...on any side of any conflict. Nothing had prepared me to know any alternatives. Basic training was a brutal, brainwashing experience wherein you are made to believe you are worthless. You can only gain value by killing other kids just as dumb as you but wearing a different uniform. That is totally fucked! What I didn't need was some ass telling me I was a piece of shit...I needed educated, I needed to know I had some value other than killing. I managed to get out without blood on my hands but my soul was wounded. I had been betrayed by every institution that I knew. I came back and headed to campus full of rage and wanted to change things. I was met by self-righteous snobs who told me I was damaged goods because I was an ex GI. These kids today are no different, they need our support in educating them, informing them of opportunities, alternatives. While it is true there are always gung-ho killer types, there are a helluva lot more that simply need someone to reach for them and offer a chance to do different. While I hate bush and his minions, I feel a responsibility to help the kids trapped in the lies and bullshit of a poisoned society.