Should All Schools Be Mandated To Teach Creationism?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by GreatestIam, Dec 1, 2014.

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  1. AiryFox

    AiryFox Member

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    "I know the bible is true because the bible tells me so."

    That is circular reasoning and illogical. Try again. Be smarter.

    Just because a Harry Potter book insists that Harry Potter is real does not make it thus.

    Use your brains, people.
     
    AiryFox, Dec 9, 2014
    #101
  3. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    If directed at me, all I can say for sure is you completely fail at discernment and critical reading skills.
     
    NoxiousGas, Dec 9, 2014
    #102
  5. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    It is not really directed at anyone in particular. People like Maelstrom/Fierce flower have a christan stereotype in their head that he has to project on any person he can in a debate like this. Frankly they seem unable to do otherwise. The best you can do is just pity him and his superb set of brains :p
     
    Asmodean, Dec 9, 2014
    #103
  7. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    There are no hypocrisies or contradictions in a document a document being what a document is. First stand on firm ground before you make a case for justice, hmm? That is in our sentence construction are errors that lead to false conclusions about the world, words being symbols for conditions.

    While I have the opportunity I received notification that you quoted a post of mine presumably as response but I didn't get a chance to see your response as it was deleted as well as the quoted post so I have no idea where we stand in our ongoing conversation. I will just reiterate that many of us make comparisons on the basis of learning well a bad lesson. The bad lesson being dogmatic rather than intuitive interpretation. They teach as doctrines the precepts of men. To examine personally with a serious mind creates a different impression than to be told or programmed to accept a particular version. People agree with me or not because they find their own reason in what I say or not, as far as interpretations go.
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #104
    1 person likes this.
  9. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    No you use them to understand what is being talked about in relation to our experience. Reading comprehension is apprehending in common.
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #105
  11. AiryFox

    AiryFox Member

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    Thank you for the compliment. <3
     
    AiryFox, Dec 9, 2014
    #106
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Doesn't reduce it'[s story making capacity. Use our brains for what?
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #107
  15. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    You are not using your brains. If you did you would be aware of the context and the good old invisible sarcasm button.
     
    Asmodean, Dec 9, 2014
    #108
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Works both ways
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #109
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  19. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Not sure why you are telling me that.
     
    Asmodean, Dec 9, 2014
    #110
  21. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Are you aware of his invisible sarcasm button?
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #111
  23. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Yes.
     
    Asmodean, Dec 9, 2014
    #112
  25. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Just so long as it doesn't become a sewerchasm.
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #113
  27. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    Everyone would do well to examine themselves to determine if they have examined the topic personally with a serious mind or have simply been programmed to accept a particular version. ;)
     
    NoxiousGas, Dec 9, 2014
    #114
  29. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    We are talking about whether religious instruction should be done in (secular) schools.

    My point is that there are sections of the Bible that requires that the meaning hinges on interpretation that does not rely on, or can not be substantiated by outside sources. They can be interpreted different ways. There are other sections that are supported by outside sources.
    I am not concerned with what the text says in relation to its form, I am interested in the semantics of the text. What is the meaning of the words that are used, how are they combined, and what is their context.


    As far as Biblical quotes, if you don't want to post them, PM them to me. I'll be happy to continue this through PMs. I am really interested in resolving this misunderstanding we have. It's interesting.

    Let's take a quote from old Tom:
    Now we all know how the sentence is structured, we know the meaning of the words. But we have to look at which word meaning Twain was implying, how the words are arranged, and in what context they are being used. Only then we can the offer our interpretation of what Mark Twain meant when he wrote those lines. Some of us may think one thing, some another.
    To verify our interpretation, we could ask Twain if he were alive, or perhaps we could seek an outside source by reading something he wrote about the "true" meaning of those lines.

    Otherwise they are open to interpretation, which can only be verified by consulting the author or an outside source written by the author. Everything else is speculation.

    Now compare that quote to this one:
    We know how the sentence is structured and we know the meaning of the words. We look at which word meaning Twain was implying, how the words are arranged, and in what context they are being used. Then we can the offer our interpretation of what Twain meant when he wrote those lines. Any debate about the accuracy of the meaning can easily be verified, without asking the author, or even referring to the book itself. As long as we accept that the St. Petersburg being discussed is on the Mississippi River, we can verify our interpretation by checking an outside source, such as a map, a geography book, or by taking an excursion to the site.

    Likewise the Bible contains some easily verified sections and some open to speculation.
    We know that The Adventures of Tom Sawyer is a work of fiction, so we have no problem presenting its text to secular students and allowing them to offer their interpretation. Very little in it is presented as fact, and anything that is is open to outside verification.

    Not so with the Bible when presented as fact.
    If you wish to present it to secular students as a work of fiction....that is another matter. But I think that would be difficult to do.
     
    MeAgain, Dec 9, 2014
    #115
  31. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    (In reference to Biblical quotes)

    The problem I'm having is determining who has the right to say their understanding is the correct one? You have your experiences, I am have mine.
    When we teach in a secular school we teach what is apprehended in common. I see much division over many areas of the Bible that society doesn't seem to be able to apprehend in common.
     
    MeAgain, Dec 9, 2014
    #116
  33. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    And if it is presented as philosophy?
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #117
  35. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    We find much agreement in what we say to each other. As I said in general if you agree with an interpretation is by virtue of your own reason. This is the point I am making about right interpretation. This is alluded to in the story where jesus asks peter who peter thought jesus was and peter answered this guy say this and this says this but jesus asks again but who do you say I am and peter gives his personal account and jesus replies no man told you this. Ultimately the promise of premise is we know them by their fruit.

    What are the fruits of your premise. What are the effects of your own thinking.
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #118
  37. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    On the subject of humble opinion it is not. It demands every bit of your concerted attention to fashion. Put it out there unabashedly and see how it is reflected back to you.
     
    thedope, Dec 9, 2014
    #119
  39. TopNotchStoner

    TopNotchStoner Georgia Homegrown

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    THIS is what should be taught in schools. Religion, of any kind, shouldn't be part of the equation, in any way at all.

    [media]http://youtu.be/9D05ej8u-gU[/media]
     
    TopNotchStoner, Dec 9, 2014
    #120
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