On the Eve of the Battle of Falluja

I mentioned this up there. The US was going to bomb the areas because that's where some insurgents were hiding out or whatever. They sent word to the people there, for the civilians, the innocent people, to get out, that they were going to bomb. Most everyone left. Shiite clerics placed those weddings there. They aren't stupid, they knew it would make our boys look bad, like they have no clue what they're doing, like they're just out for blood of anyone who may not look like them. That's bullshit.

I know how these guys are trained. They are good at what they do. But they are only human. If they were in the middle of a sniper attack (which I'm assuming they were because otherwise why would they have even thought he was a sniper if there was no attack, although do correct me if I'm assuming wrong...I'm open to it), they probably got confused. Obviously it can get crazy over there. They are doing the best they can to spare civilian lives. They don't want to hurt them either.

I understand the contempt for our government thinking they can just go over there and make things the way THEY want them. I don't believe we should be there anyway either. But the fact is, these insurgents, like I said up there in my post, are the ones killing their own without a thought! None of the men and women going over there from here wants to even accidentally kill any innocent civilian! They are not the monsters some people would make them out to be. I'd even say probably over half of them don't support the war either. I know my fiance doesn't, and I just got word today that he might have to head over there in February. It's one thing, if another country occupies your homeland, to fight back...but to place civilians in the crossfire on purpose, to not give a shit that there are civilians around anyway, that's something terrorists do. If they were truly concerned about their home, they would do everything they could to protect their people, not kill them. And I know this is the honest to God truth from both American and Iraqi soldiers' mouths....soldiers who wish they'd never had to go over there....sodiers who have nothing to gain by saying such things.



Why don't you try reading MY post again...

 

or they are freedom fighters, defending their own country from oppresive attackers, but that all depends on your viewpoint.

Nelson Mandela was once called a terrorist.

 

Read my post!! Freedom fighters care about their own people!!

 

You'll be saying George Bush is a freedom fighter next

 

Have you got a valid reference for this?

It still wouldn't match 4500 kids dying every month as a result of UN backed sanctions in the 1990's (Unicef figures)

 

oh hell no, I hate bush. Hello! all my posts say I'm against this war! I'm aware that we are the occupiers over there, but these so called "freedom fighters" are using their own people against the soldiers. Setting off car bombs as soon as the soldiers are surrounded by children as they give out candy to them. Sending wedding parties to places that are scheduled to be bombed, that have already been evacuated by the soldiers in order to AVOID killing innocents! These are NOT the actions of freedom fighters! These are awful things to do. Come on!

 

I have my fiance, I have men who were there. I have a news article but I have to find it again because I didn't save it. Don't worry, I will be back.

 

You're right, they are awful things to do, so are the recent decapitations and other shit ... but we have to be aware of the levels of desperation, the sheer enormity of what is happening to them at the moment.

I don't condone any violence, but desperate times make for desperate people.

Try this link from the UK press: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1350926,00.html

Also on Aljazeera:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/443C3B4E-C2D2-4B18-9C5C-7C9B657A8DCF.htm

 

Because it isn't democratic ... It will install a puppet willing to do the bidding of Mr Bush and his oil interests.

If you remove the phrase "Free Iraq" from that post I might consider taking it seriously

 

First of all, unlike you wish, nobody needs your sympathy.

Now the post:
Your politicians are hypocrates. And you're blind if you dont see that fact. Innocent people die there because of America which has supported Saddam, sold him weapons and cooperated with a dictator who gassed his own people, knowing this very fact.The more I see people like you, the more I thank god for how I'm doing.

The photos I now post display clearly who kills innocent people, who cooperates with them, who does not give a fuck about women's and children's safety.

America violates all kinds of rules of conduct agreed in the Genéve convention, including the handling of POWs and rejects that its soldiers be tried on international courts while itself forces other states to sign that very same treaty it rejects.

The obvious 3 photos are taken after Saddam gassed his citizens with American and French weapons.

 

You know that the war is unjust, you know that the US should pull its troops out of Iraq but you dont admit the cruelties commited by the US army, the number one killer of civillians in recorded history of humanity (Nagasaki and Hiroshima alone would level the US army with the Nazis). You justify the mistakes in wars. Then what's left? Everyone can justfiy mistakes made during a war. But then again, the question remains the same: whats better than an unjust war?

 

Not looking too good for the locals:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4008887.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3999899.stm

 

Here's an article about the actual attack where the children were killed:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1317390,00.html

And here's another article, a really sad article about how children are told to stay away from the soldiers, that some just plain don't trust them anymore, that some are just afraid due to all the attacks they could get caught in the middle of:
http://www.wibc.com/news/article.aspx?id=482223


I've tried to find more. It's hard to find an unbiased article...and I'm aware that these two are probably biased, as all news is. But some of the articles I found were terribly biased, so much, from both sides of the story. Honestly it's up to you whether to believe these or not. Or to find anything else on the subject that you believe more. The main reason I believe these things I say is because I've heard it from friends who've been there. But I understand that that means nothing to other people. If I were you I would probably be skepticle too. Honestly, though there are some crazed idiots fighting over there in our name (Abu Ghraib---sickening), and there are some horrible things this administration is a part of (well, besides the war itself, there's the outsourcing of torture), but the majority of our men and women over there are just trying to do what they think is best...yes, even if it's just what they've been told is best. The fact remains, they're doing their best, and I can guarantee, that except for those few psychopathic soldiers over there, the majority of them only want to leave Iraq peacefully, and better off than before. I just take this rather personally since I know so many in the military for some odd reason, and because my own fiance, like I said, will probably be over there soon, and I know these people only want the best for not only our own country, but also Iraq, and where ever else they may be sent.

 

Thanks for finding them. It only strengthens my belief that we should just never have gone there. I might have been bad before but it's fubar now.

 

agreed

 

Inagodadavita and Co0kiezGurl;

First things first. Modern times are destroying our historical consciousness. Therefore we should evaluate events on a historical basis.

The case is not Iraq. Iraq is only the visible and bleeding (or shall we use the word "melting" in the age of global destruction,mostly by the US industry)

part of the Iceberg that needs urgent attention. It is the most violent, bloody and unjust part, for both sides where civilians are harmed more than the fighters (as in most wars). But what brings people's fiances, sons and daughters to that arena?

It is a system that lives on waging wars. Iraq is a special country in a special region. It was freed from their first oppressors (the Ottomans) by the British. The Brits, emplaced "their guys" in the Iraqi government and that puppet government have ruled (sold cheap oil to Britain) for tens of years. Thus, the British became the new oppressors- maybe we can use Adam Smith's "invisible hand" here in political economic terms as well.

The exactly same thing happened in Iran. Where Britain had to cooporate (or lets say had to admit a partner due to lack of capital) with the USA after the 2nd World War for financing coup d'etats and etc. Humeyni in Iran and Saddam in Iraq were the leaders who broke this chain. Then the big liberators (britain and the usa) induced the "Let Dog Eat Dog" policy during which they've sold weapons first to Saddam to kill Humeyni, then to Humeyni and then vice versa, till Iraq was the minor victor of the 8 year long war.

Saddam was the newly declared scape goat to justify USA's "international duty" which no impotent country (the U.N.) dared to do. He was not considered as a "bloody dictator" when he was buying arms, technology and etc. When was he declared a dictator? When he nationalized the country's resources, just as Mossadegh tried and Humeyni achieved in Iran. What was the last drop that spilled over the cup? The invasion of Kuweit. Why did he invade Kuweit, because when the British left the region, back in the 20th century, they drew borders so planned that it would create a casus belli for the two countries, after which Britain would intervene to stop the aggression. Though, Britain could not forsee the 2nd World War, which overthrew its lead in the world.

So when you look at Iraq on a historical basis and the percentage of the coalition forces in Iraq, you see that it is not an operation of liberation. But it is the mere shifting of powers in the region from Britain to the USA. Are there any other examples to this in history? You bet your ass:

There are several reasons why the USA intervene in the 2nd Worl War. Pearl Harbor was just a mysterious concidence that created public support for the war bonds and boot camps. By entering the war, the USA grabbed the western portion of Europe, the Pasific islands and Japan. Between whom was this balance of power shifted? First Germany and Britain, then (with the fall of Germany and the weakening of Britain) between America and the USSR. Who traded with the Nazis? Prescott Bush. Who died there in this case truly liberating Europe, your grand parents.

USA tried to over weigh in that very same balance of power in Southern Asia. And do you remember what the name of the country was? Vietnam. Who was on the other side of the fulcrum? France. Who died there in the jungles? Your parents.

Shifting of powers is again happening in Iraq now. Who are the actors? Britain and the USA. Who's dying out there? Your fainces.

To prove you that, I've posted the photo of the two bastards, one is in your government and the other one is in jail now. So, peoples beloved ones are just the pawns needed to be spared in their "master plan". You can observe this in Army's recruit policy as well. This is the main framework: Live by the sword, die by the sword.

"What is to be done?" in Iraq now?
People werent revolting to the US army when they first liberated Iraq from the dictator. They were actually supporting them to some extend. What has turned the tables? The US army stayed, set up a puppet government and re-organized the ministry of oil in the first place (not the ministry of health and education or anything else), thus became the new, forceful and christian dictator... not to mention America's "good" reputation among Arabs. The USA shouldnt have gone there in the first place. But what can you do once you get stuck in shit? After toppling Saddam, the USA should have stayed just to ensure the security of elections. After Iraqi people establish their own democratic government, the USA should have pulled out. Nobody backs a prime minister of a sovereign country that invites American (or foreign) soldiers. That's lame.

And by promoting trade, Iraq's education policy could have been shaped. Noone educated enough works for El-Kaide. If the USA had donated 10% of what it used to finance the war as food and medicine, no father (who lost his baby due to malnutrition) would have enlisted to the insurgents. Only desperate people fear no death. And these desperate people are on both sides. Undereducated and unemployed teenagers living in the slums of "the metropolis", on the verge of becoming criminals in the USA and the fathers that have just buried their families in Iraq. This is the war of the desperates. The policy is the same but the title is different "Let Desperate Eat Desperate".

For as spartacus once has said, they've got "nothing to lose but their chains"


Note: Thanks to Lickerish for correcting me about Mossadegh and the nationalizing of the Iranian petroleum.

 

I think we should just leave iraq alone now, and let the insurgents take over. Because if they take over it will be a wonderful land like the ones the teletubbies live in. All Happy, because the insurgents only want happiness for their people. La la la la happy happy happy iraqi world led by the wonderful people that kill their own. Yay.

 

lol anyone using this is an obvious anti-busher and nothing more. IBM traded with the nazis. hell everyone did.

 

Another classic childish post from our resident indoctrinated military drone.

Of course, continued US occupation and the installation of a well known CIA collusionist with zero political credibility amongst the indigenous population is a sure route to a paradise for the common Iraqi.

Get your head out of your ass for once in your life andrew and learn something of the history of Western machinations in the region. This is history revisited for the average Iraqi and the very reason they see all too clearly what Washington is intent upon achieving.

What they want is what they have every right as a sovereign people to expect, self determination to decide their own direction, regardless of what the elite corporate interests behind our warmaking would prefer.

As if our own nation stands as any model of "a wonderful land like the one the teletubbies live in".

 

So it's not The Nazis, it's The Capital. We're talking about neo-liberalism.