On reaching a consensus re mass shootings in the U.S.

I'm late to the party, so I'm sorry if I ruin the flow of your thread.

But, guns have been around for a loooooong time. Abnormal behavior has been around for, well, ever.

Mass shootings on the scale we've seen the past 15-20 years is something new. Something's different. But is it abnormal behavior--which, as I said, is as old as mankind? I'm not convinced it's abnormal behavior--at least not solely. Something else is at play here. Media sensationalism maybe? Perception--as a result of constant and instant news bytes--that the world is a darker, scarier place than it is? I. Don't. Know. All I do know, is I never heard of a mass shooting in my lifetime until Columbine. Since then? Started out once every other year or so. Now it seems like it's every month.

Something in our environment, our culture, our media maybe--I don't know. But something is breeding a new kind of abnormal behavior that didn't seem to exist years ago. Whatever that is, is what we need to focus on and address. The true problem is how to identify that catalyst.

 

No , I do not agree to that . Abnormal behavior does not relate to mass shootings . You relate to
mass shootings . I relate all of this to war . Your manipulation of consensus is itself un-peaceful .

 

The other variable is the mass shootings on this scale is uniquely America. We’ve had 212 school shootings since 2000. The next closest country has 5

 

Canada has drug problems. Canada has mental health problems. 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border and are bombarded with American culture. They have a large immigrant population. They have strict gun laws and very little gun violence.

 

That's what I mean. There is something seriously wrong here. Something like 30% of Canadians own guns and, as you mentioned below, they don't have this issue.

Is it cultural? Is it environmental? What? Why is American society so sick all of a sudden? What's the X factor?

 

It’s hard to imagine it’s cultural when the cultures most similar to America don’t exhibit the problem.

Gun laws are much stricter in Canada. Anyone wishing to buy a gun in Canada and/or ammunition must have a valid licence under the Firearms Act. To obtain a firearms licence, all applicants must undergo a screening process, which includes a safety course, criminal history and background checks, provision of personal references, and a mandatory waiting period.

Americans make up about 4 % of the global population but own 42 % of the world’s guns. The primary statistical difference is Americans access to guns

 

You guys, I feel like we're more qualified than the legislators at this point.

 

The USA is at war , continually . It's allies do participate , yet will not suffer so much personal bad feeling . But , oh well , there's tragic France .

 

I do not think mass shootings are normal behavior . War is what's normalized .
Mass shootings are consistent with war-mentality .

Your consensus proposal has been blocked .

Or , if the circle wishes there can be consensus minus one .

 

War usually has opponents going against each other. It's not a ''war'' when a random psychopath goes into a school and kills innocent, unarmed kids. That's called a massacre.

Deep rooted, unchecked depression + access to guns = what we are seeing with mass shootings

 

You literally speak of normalized war .

 

I'm inclined to agree. While so many seem to think the "easy" solution is simply to remove the guns, it seems more like they don't want to have to deal with the real culprit, genuine insanity. I get so tired of this "let's do it the easy way" bullshit that has infected the whole country. There was a time when we executed rapists and killers. Now we lock them up for a few years and let them out for "good behavior" so they can once again be vital members of society.

It's all such utter bullshit. If we burned this asshole in Florida on a stake, how many other "teens" who are contemplating an attack on a school might actually think twice? Naturally the really insane ones won't give a shit and will probably spank to the video of the killer-b-q that leaks to the web. But the ones on the fence will get the message.

Unfortunately we don't have anyone willing to enforce the existing laws. We have chickenshit oinkers who spend most of their day covering for each other's shakedowns.

While I appreciate the depression angle, I think the problem is much deeper.

 

There's no effective way to treat mental illness, so that's not a solution.

 

Hi

It’s not a matter of one or the other.

This is a problem I’ve noted from the beginning in the gun debates (and in some others) people want to separate issues rather than understand that most problems need and involve a holistic approach.

Ease of access to guns is one aspect not having in place social and economic infrastructures to help people is another.

Too often the gun lobby want to blame anything and everything but ease of access to guns – mental health, the violent culture of some groups, bad drug policies, even genetics, while some are bogus others are factors the question is to examine them BUT never forget that ease of access to guns is also a factor.

The thing is that many in the gun lobby lean politically to the right and often seem opposed to the type of social and economic policies that would help those facing mental health problems (decent welfare, universal healthcare and a well-funded Social Services system).

So lets not get sidetracked and go back to MeAgain's questions.

 

Acts of war are not abnormal , nor can they be in any form civilized/ normalized .
Anyone may choose to go to war .

Consensus is blocked .

The last consensus circle I was in I proposed this : Abolish punishment . It was diversely
and well-discussed , yet blocked with a passion by many - too many - and in chorus . This
was a peace gathering . Very strange .