London murder rate rises higher than NY City

Well, they used to say the same things about Catholics in the U.S.: "they're authoritarian, breed like rabbits, and will someday take over and shove their values down our throats". And there's some truth to it The "pro life" agenda is largely the result of a Catholic-Evangelical alliance. But we found out with Kennedy that not all Catholics are like that--and now with Pope Francis we're finding not all popes are like that. We have to be careful about what kinds of Muslims we encourage. There's a big difference between your typical Muslim from Tunisa, Indonesia, Bangladesh, or Kazakhstan and one from Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. There's an enormous difference between the fundamentalist Salafi/Whahabi version of Islam and the Sufis, and between liberal Hanafi Sharia and the conservative Hanbali school. For an idea of how Islam could be reconciled with modern liberal democracy, see Mustafa Akyol, Isalm Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty. Of course the "hardcore believers" will try to push the envelope, but we shouldn't underestimate the countervailing force of secular western values. I think the most effective way to neutralize radical Islam would be to encourage the moderates.

 

Everyone has a good side about them.

The 60s were a very long time ago. Times are different now. Why can't we stop griping about black people's pasts, and start focusing on their futures?

By the way, slavery existed in the North too, all the way until the late 1850s. New Hampshire and New Jersey freed their slaves in 1865, the same year as the rest of the South. Dictionary of Afro-American Slavery

So there you have it, there's nothing physically stopping minorities from escaping poverty and living successful livelihoods. However, the war on poverty was a catastrophic failure.

Studies have shown that people treat the well dressed and well mannered better than those who dress like crap. Like it or not, someone who's well dressed is less likely to be stopped and questioned than someone wearing a wife-beater and a do-rag (regardless the race). Maybe that's a part of it.. Nah, of course NOT! It's must be systematic oppression or some bullshit like that. Sigh.....

Does she ask the waiter not to be seated there? If so, do they deny her requests? Personally, I prefer the out-of-the-way parts of restaurants. I don't like people waking by me all the time when I'm dining. I too have been treated rudely at shops and bitter staff members too; and I've never gone back. So this sounds to me like another example of taking disrespectful actions WAY too personally. Just because someone was rude to you, that doesn't mean their rudeness was based out of racist intent. In the days of Yelp and social media, restaurant owners are walking a tight-rope

 

How are they different? We've made lots of progress to be sure, but there's still much work to be done. I think the biggest difference is the rise of privileged AltRight twerps who spend their days paddling that long river in Africa.

So what?

Yes.

 

6

Oh my wife laughed her head off at that one, she’ll be calling me ‘schoolmarm’ for the rest of the week LOL

But didn’t you work out that that was the point – the context – you need to think about what is posted rather than just react to it.

Look at the context in which you mention the woman’s skin colour you only brought it up to try and claim you are not alt-right and therefore not a bigot.

But people who are not bigots don’t feel the need to go around constantly saying they are not bigots.

And your posts are littered with alt-right buzzwords and slogans, so I’m sorry but you still seem to be part of the alt-right which you started a thread to defend and it doesn’t matter how many ‘brown Mexicans’ you deem to go out with.

LOL - I’m one of those type who what…..man you are hilarious.

The whole point is that it doesn’t matter who you date, who you date doesn’t make or unmake you a bigot, saying what seem like ill-informed and simplistic bigoted remarks is what makes someone seem like a bigot.

 

6

Well if you think wealth equates to privilege and white household are on average wealthier than those of other ethnic groups especially black household then you would have to conclude that privilege leans toward the white in US society. In other words by your wealth definition white privilege exists.

LOL oh so what you are saying is that YOU have no thoughts of your own on this subject you let others think for you and accept what they say without question.

This is the problem, you don’t think about an issue you just attack anyone that doesn’t just accept the same things you have accepted.

It seems incredibly naive and ill-informed to claim there are no racial problems in the US when there clearly is – it the kind of stance a bigot would make – the problem is not racial discrimination it’s just that black people are….I mean it is bigoted to hint there is something inferior about black people because Asians (those of another race than whites) are doing OK.

You are seeing things in terms of race in a bigoted way, it’s not about solutions it is a racial blame game.

 

6

Again you are seeing thing through the lens of your prejudices and bias – what you see as ‘reparations’ for ‘blacks’ I would say should be a social policy that is open to every citizen regardless of race, colour or creed.

The other thing that warps your views is your irrational view of anything ‘left-wing’ - which you seem to define as anything to the left of your own views. So you see the history of the US in terms of left and right when actually as I’ve explained to you before its more of one right of centre liberal party (Democrats) and one further right party (Republicans).

Do I really need to explain it all again and will you read it and take it in this time? Because I asked you -

have you done any of that reading that was recommended for you or are you really going to go through life basing virtual all of your political, social and economic thinking on the bad sci-fi ramblings of Ayn Rand?

And your reply was – NO you haven’t read anything suggested – and from experience you ignore or ‘forget’ anything that doesn’t fit in with what you already believe. You are incredibly close minded.

So in your warped view socialism and socialist are those that decided to give you a green ribbon when you wanted a blue ribbon, like my sister. Even for you this is a bit of a simplistic take on things. I find it unlikely that these people were actually socialists and frankly you come across as a bit of a snowflake for it to have affected you so much that you hold a grudge even today. Anyway that is not what defines socialism and it says a lot about how ill-informed you are to think it does.

Do I really have to explain things to you again and again will you actually read and absorb what I say?

Anyway once again I think you really need to do a bit of reading outside of your bubble.

 

6

So your ‘rational’ solution is to let in ‘good’ Muslims and not the ‘bad’ ones, first how do you tell, I mean you’ve hinted many times that you think all Muslims are tuned to want take control and out to bring down western civilisation (oh and then you bring up your flatmate to try and prove you are not bigoted).

Are you saying you’d welcome Muslims into your community and then try and rile them up with ‘provocative’ publicity stunts and divisive rhetoric, how is that welcoming?

And isn’t that likely to be counterproductive and play into the hands of extremist recruiters.

 

6

LOL sorry it’s just not – real counter cultures are supposed to interesting, fresh and dynamic, but the far righters are rather absurd and sad - pushing old ideas like some middle-class white dad thinking he’s ideas will be cool and down with the kids if he sings them in the form of a rap.

I mean come on man you just repeat the same alt-right crap over and over parroting without thought the buzz words and slogans you’ve been taught to ape like a dog that’s learnt how to beg.

Those that don’t agree with you are statists, globalists or socialists but asked to explain what you mean – well I don’t think you have a clue what you are saying it’s just insult words like a child that says ‘fuck’ but doesn’t know what that means.

This and the fact you never listen preferring to repeat the same old arguments over and over even when you know they are rubbish make it very difficult to have anything like a rational debate with you.

But I find you very funny so please don’t stop posting.

 

I have met very few people with real intelligence and accomplishments in their careers that were the alt-right type. Being a coal miner is not a success by the way but it is typical con work. It's doing the best you can but having no education or skills just being born in the right place. But that is right wing success. Nothing against the coal miner it is a job that once needed doing but it's not rocket science. You are paid because the risk is so extreme basically only someone like you with nothing would have to do it.

Probably whey they hate college and the "liberal elite" so much. Once you learn you tend to not fall for the crap. There is a reason why most Nazis in America come from a poor background for example. It's not your fault it's those lazy niggers that is why your life is hard and they buy it. They can say it's counter culture all they want but there is a reason they feel so alone. It's their own choice to not share the same ethics of society.

 

I have a considered good job/qualifications and spent years in academia hearing left wing nut cases spread they fantasies

I’m not alt right but am a right learning person.

Nothing wrong with being concerned about immigration

Why is it when someone says something generic like immigration is bringing down wages
They are a racist?

Isn’t that just demand side economics?

We constantly get spon fed the supply side argument... that more people benefit society!

For example

Why is it ok to say immigration is good because (like politicians here in the U.K.) we need people do do low skilled jobs to help economy.

That’s condescending and pretty racist. But hey... it’s just economics when they say it right?

 

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Is there an Islamic country where you'd rather live than Oklahoma?

There was once a time centuries ago when Catholics treated women, homosexuals, heathens, and apostates the same way Muslim-run societies do in present day. Where other oppressive religions have moved past the dark ages, Islam lags behind. I think the best way is to have the whole religion of Islam undergo a reformation movement. We find common ground in that we should encourage moderates to speak out.

The poverty rate in America has remained at a stagnant 14% since 1964. The year Johnson waged this war. Explain to me how the war on poverty is a success.

 

I'm glad I could bring a smile to your wife's face. I'm sure she's a wonderful lady. I hope she calls you a schoolmarm for the rest of your life. Please tell her boyfriend I said Hi.

Maybe you can explain to me what kind of racist/bigot would date or procreate with someone outside of their own race? I'm trying really hard to figure this out.

The only "wrongdoing" I might've done was describe her nationality and skin tone. And there is nothing wrong with that.

The truth is, you're just another fringe-leftist who uses the word racist in the exact same context as calling someone a jerk. I may be a jerk, but a racist I am not.

Nice spin attempt. So this is just like saying that every article, video, or publication you've ever used in your debates with on here, is just like saying you never had any thoughts on the subject. I just happened to think Mr. Kirk could articulate it in a way that is easier for y'all to understand. But it is ironic how you and Okie can quickly discredit him because he's a "privileged" white man. That's discrimination right there. Just sayin'.

Yes so Asians are doing better than whites. Your "whites are the richest" argument comes crashing down in flames. So you and Okie quickly grasp for straws by equating casual rudeness to systemic racism. Pitiful.

Yes, there are racial problems in this country. And the media has done more to fan the flames then they do to put it out.

For example, this kind of racism is encouraged by leftist media and academia Evergreen State students demand professor resign for failing to participate in ‘Day of Absence’

There are other books in my reading queue ahead of yours. Give it time.

Participation Trophies are a socialist invention; cooperation over competition. Everyone is equal regardless the effort level.

Alt-righters say "snowflake" all the time. You must be alt-right.

See, two can play at your straw manning game.

I don't care what religion anyone practices. As long as they keep it to themselves. If you want to pray 5 times a day, fast for a month, more power to you. Sharia law is not a part of British or American culture.

But 40% of British muslim youth want Sharia Law in your country. 40% of young UK Muslims want sharia law

But I suppose this, to you, is "Hinting" that I think all muslims want to bring down western civilization. Sigh...

 

Lets see here. Leftism dominates Hollywood. More than 2/3 of all corporate cable news outlets including entertainment channels like MTV and Comedy Central. They run academia and universities. They've turned Silicone Valley into a huge echo chamber by blocking and censoring conservatives and libertarians. This is the dominant culture.

You cannot be the dominant mainstream culture, and the counter culture at the same time.

Your monopoly on cool, is over.

 

There isn't anywhere on earth I'd rather live than Oklahoma! But Morocco is pretty nice.

Unfortunately, reformation movements are hard to engineer, and one never knows where they're likely to end up. It's sad to think that at one time, Islam during the Abasid Calipahate, al-Andalus, and the Ottoman empire, Islam had a remarkably tolerant, vibrant culture, leading the world in science, mathematics and philosophy. Then it succumbed to fundamentalism. Niall Ferguson dates the finale to the closing of the Ottoman observatory for blasphemy. The West also played its part": first colonialism, then cultural imperialism, then the stupid efforts to thwart moderate reform movements and Pan-Arabism out of fear of communism, the cultivation of the wahabis and the shah of Iran, and of course Bin Laden. Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian theorist of violent jihad, was influenced by a stay in the United States as a student where he was turned off by Americans attention to their lawns and cars. The payoff was when he attended a Methodist church social and saw young people dancing. If only he'd attended a Baptist social history might have been different. The story is that Baptists never have sex standing up, because someone might come in on them and think they're dancing. I, myself, occasionally attend services at a local mosque, where I find some respite from the rampant materialism and hedonism of our own culture and enjoy fellowship with moderate Muslim believers.

The war on poverty was nearly as unsuccessful as the war on drugs. It was eclipsed by the War in Vietnam, and ended with the term of LBJ. Yet there were some successes in programs that continued after Johnson's single term: food stamps, Supplemental Security Income (a guaranteed minimum income for the elderly and disabled), and Section 8 rent subsidies for poor tenants in private housing, were either launched or dramatically expanded between 1969 and 1980. See Martha Bailey and Sheldon Danziger,ed., Legacies of the War on Poverty .Former executive officer of the Task Force on Poverty Hyman Bookbinder wrote in an op-ed in The New York Times. that:the War on Poverty did not fail but achieved some good results. Instead, "society has failed. It tired of the war too soon, gave it inadequate resources and did not open up new fronts as required. Large-scale homelessness, an explosion of teen-age pregnancies and single-parent households, rampant illiteracy, drugs and crime - these have been both the results of and causes of persistent poverty. While it is thus inappropriate to celebrate an anniversary of the war on poverty, it is important to point up some of the big gains ... Did every program of the 60's work? Was every dollar used to its maximum potential? Should every Great Society program be reinstated or increased? Of course not ... First, we cannot afford not to resume the war. One way or another, the problem will remain expensive. Somehow, we will provide for the survival needs of the poorest: welfare, food stamps, beds and roofs for the homeless, Medicaid. The fewer poor there are, the fewer the relief problems. Getting people out of poverty is the most cost-effective public investment."New York Times, Did the War on Poverty Fail? The New York Times August 19,1989. A 2015 Columbia University analysis shows that politics aside, the Johnson-era programs did work.The Columbia study finds that a new poverty measure used by the Census Bureau reveals a greater margin of success for Johnson’s efforts. Using the Supplemental Poverty Measure — a more accurate and up-to-date metric first implemented by the US Census in 2009 — the Columbia researchers found that safety net programs had a significant effect: They found that the poverty rate fell from 26 percent in 1967 to 16 percent in 2012 — a decrease of almost 40 percent. The War on Poverty: Did it Work? | BillMoyers.com

 

6

Again this is a great insight into how you think and the way you see anything to the left of your far right position as somehow far left.

It seems to me that ‘Hollywood’ is dominated by corporations that are more about profit than ideology but are defiantly not left wing. I think you could say there is a liberal bias but if you think about it do you want films and entertainment pushing illiberal messages or maybe that is actually what you want.

In what way is Silicone Valley being blocked and censored?

LOL thanks I’m glad you think I’m cool – but sorry to say I don’t think that’s true, I’m just a normal person getting on with a normal life and I’m happy with that – but you don’t seem to be happy, you seem desperate to be special and cool, but really far right ideas are not cool or hip or counter culture is just the same old manipulation and power play.

 

6

But your whole support for provocative agitators (like Bob) is not to leave such people alone it’s to try and rile them.

Which as I’ve pointed out is likely to be counterproductive and play into the hands of extremist recruiters.

 

6

Sorry mate but really not sure what you are going on about – in what way does the statistical evidence crash down in flames when its correct and what casual rudeness are you on about?

Well it’s good to hear you are doing some reading, could you tell us what you are reading at the moment? Oh and please don’t tell me it’s another Ayn Rand novel.

 

6

To quote from the Politics Forum Guidelines –

As often stated this is not a bulletin board it is a place to debate politics. For that reason cut and pasted articles or links [including video] should be used sparingly and more as a way to highlight a persons viewpoint rather than as a replacement for a persons viewpoint. People that consistently post articles or links without comment may find their posts removed.

Basically I don’t give a fuck what this Kirk guy thinks I want to know what you think – at the moment I don’t know if you have given this much thought or not but your replies so far seem to indicate not.

 

6

LOL you sound like someone whose very lacking in experience or knowledge of the real world and again it makes me wonder if you have read any history, even any history of the US?

I mean while a majority of slave owners were racists but that didn’t mean they didn’t procreating with their property, sex for some is not about love but power.

As I keep explaining you think too often in a simplistic way you don’t think about things but simply react to them without thought. And to say again too often you see thing as simply a matter of black and white - either or.

So to you someone is either a complete racist/bigoted OR they are completely not a racist/bigoted

The problem as I keep having to point out to you is that the real world isn’t like that.

I’ve meet people that have been really into oriental culture and women but who thought black people were intellectually and morally inferior to other racial groups. I’ve meet black people that were vocally homophobic, Asians that hated blacks and black people that hated Asians and I’ve meet middle class white people that thought all lower class people including white ones were basically a subnormal species.

I could go on and on

Prejudice, bigotry and racism isn’t just a matter of yes or no it’s complicated – to try and claim that you are somehow devoid of all bigotry because you don’t mind going out with a woman with brown skin come across as incredibly disingenuous or naive.

But why did you bring it up at all? It seems to me the only reason was to try and claim you are not a bigot, as I keep pointing out people who are not bigots don’t have to go around repeatedly saying they are not bigots.

A white male heterosexual doesn’t have to prove they are not racist or bigoted by going out with someone of a different skin colour, religion or of the same sex, they just have to not be a bigot or racist.