Liberalism and why I despise it

Liberals just will not make a distinction between social ethics and something scientific explaining a specific condition of deceit and self-deceit. But really what bothers me. They take for granted the difference by monetary considerations OR practical considerations, OF what is humanism from what is exactly considered a scientific discussion.

 

I have several problems with Liberalism, and they become more and more evident, everytime I come back to this site.

90% of Liberals support Obama, (PEW research) but many will quickly claim they don't when Obama's lies are exposed.

Many Liberals support the confiscation of firearms, yet, have no problem with Obama killing people, or government having guns.

Liberals want to expand government, but claim they have issues with the 1% (who gains power and control, through government)

They support higher taxes, yet many of Obama's commission and staff, don't even pay taxes at all.


They claim to believe in free speech, but can't handle any opposing views.

They claim to oppose Bushes patriot act, but don't mind that Obama re-enstated it, nor that he passed more tyrannical laws like the NDAA.

They talk about Global Warming, and our "carbon footprint," while their champion Al Gore uses more electricity and gas than 20X the national average.

Liberals are against capital punishment for serial killers, but they don't care about mothers killing their unborn babies.

Liberals pretend to believe in free religion, but don't blink an eye when the religious rights being imposed on, are christian or catholic.

Liberals claim thy want to "help" people, when all research shows that Conservatives and Libertarian-conservatives are much more sharing with their money than Liberals.

And most of all, Liberals claim to believe in the Constitution, but when a democrat violates those rights, they just come up with excuses that place the blame on Republicans.

These are several hypocrisies in Liberalism. Not to mention that if they are called out on any of this, they just say "you're lying," "I don't believe that," or anything that will take the blame off of them, when their policies all head in the same direction of more government and more forceful imposition on our human rights- smh!

 

Wow STP I did not know that you felt that way.
Thanks for sharing!

 

25

The problem is that you seem to imply that anything that doesn’t hold your views is somehow a ‘liberal’ bunching together those with leftwing, liberal or rightwing views all together, I mean just look through your list is silly

I know lefties that really dislike some aspects of the Obama Admins rule and I know right wingers that approve of some aspects of the Obama Admins rule.

The PEW research says liberal Democrats I couldn’t find the actual methodology but the capital D seems to indicated its based on registered Democrats.

Its not all those people that might call themselves liberal or left wing. So you point disappears in a cloud of smoke.

Well traditionally the right in the US has been the great supporter of the military and military actions especially against so called ‘communists’.

But it is only because of ‘free market ideas and policies coupled with a political system that depends too much on money that the 1% have become so powerful

Try reading
Free market = plutocratic tyranny
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=353336&f=36

Basically this is a misdirection it tries to claim that anything aimed at lessening the influence of the 1% is expand government and bad, it a ploy an con to try and halt any move on wealth’s power.

Again why does one mean you agree with the other?

I know from experience (and I know many who had similar experiences) that airing left wing views on a right wing forum can get you an instant banning, its why I’m on this site. I’ve hardy ever banned people from here.

Again generally left wingers dislike all while those on some sides of the right like.

This is plain silly, Al Gore doesn’t even come up on many greens radar, I haven’t even seen inconvenient truth

And many right wing libertarians don’t care if women have abortions to them it’s a individual right thing as a leftie my question is why do women still feel they need to have abortions and it often comes down to financial considerations or poor education or religious beliefs and moves to tackle those problems is often opposed by those on the right.
What would you do about abortion?

I think if people were better educated they’d be less people feeling they wanted or needed a religious belief.

What research?

But try Why the Rich Don't Give to Charity - The wealthiest Americans donate 1.3 percent of their income; the poorest, 3.2 percent.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/04/why-the-rich-dont-give/309254/

Personally I think the US constitution should be re-written.

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25 – is you world view so twisted that you cannot see the problems in your simplistic approach to this whole thing about ‘liberals’?

 

When STP says Liberal he specifically means the stereotypical Liberals as pointed out by American right wing propoganda machines and repeated by angry rednecks all over the Country.

 

I agree but I don’t like the term ‘redneck’ to me it is just about been ill informed and indoctrinated by a system that is geared toward propagandising a certain viewpoint. I see such people as victims worthy of sympathy on one level although on another I do find it hard not to ridicule.

 

Oh my God. You didn't.

 

It's really not, because a common theme in Liberalism is expanding the government- Liberals can say they don't believe that, but it is an aspect of taxing more, and creating more government programs. I think to deny that is silly.

Most Liberals I have talked to support Obama. Even if they don't support him, they support his forced healthcare and other dangerous aspects of his administration.

No, it doesn't because a majority of liberals support more government, and Obama's policies are a reflection of that, mixed in with the now standard Bush Doctrine.

Democrats were a party of wars too. and, if you don't thin LBJ had anything to do with the murder of JFK, you're lying to yourself.

They are both parties of war, cause we have a system built around war and romors of war.

This is where you're confused. It is fake capitalism that has caused this mess. Under Libertarianism, In the free market: you don't get bailouts/special government benefits, they can coerce the government to go to war to boost profits and, the government is bound by the constitution- these are all things that are happening already. What would Liberalism do to stop it?

It's NOT a misdirection. Obama has all bankers and lobbyists in his white house, I mean, it should be obvious he's a tool of the 0.1%- he even goes to Bilderberg meetings.

Ive almost gone banned here for expressing my opinions.

In America, a lot of Liberals support Gore. He's the main politician pushing Global Warming fear tactics on the people.

People have different reasons for clinging to religious beliefs. It's not mine or your place to force our beliefs unto others, and they should still be able to believe what they believe without condemnation

I know rich people dont pay enough- thats due to tax cuts and government benefits- it's the middle class keeping this country alive.

Personally, I think they would be one of the biggest mistakes we can make. The government today is more likely to abolish our rights, than fix them for the better.

I know what Liberalism is. Just because Liberals believe their views would correct the problems, and change the status quo- doesn't make it true.

Expanding government, and giving them more power and wealth- is what's causing the transfer of wealth to the 1%, and doing more of that, isn't going to help anyone but them.

 

Duck Dynasty comes to mind.

 

I'm a born and raised NYer, so explain that one Mr.KnowItAll!

Rednecks are mainstream Republican typically. They encourage all the wars to "keep us safe."

They think Libertarian views of no unprovoked wars would cause us to get attack by all these middle eastern countries.

Liberals, on the other hand, support the system, no matter what they say to divert it. Wanting the government to spend more money- even if it is on Humanitarian efforts- is wrong.

Firstly, it expands the Government greatly, and it becomes another failing government business. The government nearly always loses money, where corporations make money.- look at private vs public schools, look at Fed Ex compared to the post office. I mean, it's just common sense to realize the government is a failure, and relying on them to fix the problems they caused, has virtually no substance. That's why I converted.

Liberalism is sadly just a continuation of what we already have. Liberals say their end goal is a peaceful world, but I see it as an Orwellian Nightmare, where, when a democrats he's in charge, he can get away with anything. I think of all the people who we're protesting Bush, and hated him; And, I wonder how they've could've fallen for the same tricks.


Liberalism only intends to tax the rich more and create more spending, government programs and, taxes. This boosts the government, and their power, and, will shrink the middle class greater.

So, in conclusion, Leftists support the status quo, as much as the Bush Republicans did. Many of them vote democrat, and the rest of them want to expand the government.

 

You are generalizing if you always insist on what they do typically is all they do.

 

First of all, I said many liberals support Obama, and all of them want to expand the government.

That's true. I hear all the time how I'm generalizing, and bunching all liberals into one group.

But sadly, it's not true. If you ask any Liberal, what they believe they will say something to the extent;

Right there, this guy is saying that Liberals see government as, not only the common interest of the people, but also a manditory service, that no one is exempt from.

But our government wastes trillions of dollars, gives out bailouts, gives foreign aid to militant countries etc etc- but, there's nothing in Liberalism to fix these problems, they just want to expand government.

Well, the government is the ones who caused these problems. We would be alot better off, if the government would just follow the Constitution.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just expressing my views, because I think Liberals, (especially those who support Obama,) will be on the wrong side of history; because of their intentions to expand government, when the government is known to start wars, and, work for the highest bidder.

Other than that, I am socially liberal. I believe in free speech, I think anyone should be able to get married and, I think the drug war is unconstitutional and should be ended.

The only reasons I lean Right is: I believe in the Right to Bear arms and, I believe in a small government. The more power the government has, the more corporations can exploit the taxpayer. The government gets power from the people, so the idea is to give that power back to the people.

Idk why liberals think it would help big businesses when the top .01% are guilty of bribery and fraud, and, those corrupt industries would be shut down at the littlest slip-up. It's definitely more efficient than just indiscriminately taxing the rich more; and, with all the cuts in spending, we wouldn't need as much taxes, and the middle class could keep their money and: save it, spend it, start a small business or, buy some stocks. It's these people that higer taxes and bigger government hurt, not the rich..

 

It is a pity there is only one guy needed to affirm your prejudice. Does it work in reverse as well? Just kidding, I know it takes a whole lot of people to tell you you are hopelessly generalizing and that you are happy to see affirmation when one meets your perception but there's an infinite number of people needed to tell you they're not all the same

 

As I said; Liberals have a common belief structure that is the same, and unfortunately, continues the injustices of an overbearing Federal Government system.

 

as you know, I don't like to identify myself as any particular political label.

but because I have been called liberal by others before, and because I support certain liberal tenements such as gay marriage, the right to safe and legal abortion, ending the drug war, a single payer healthcare system, a solid social safety net, etc.....I will identify as a liberal here simply for the sake of argument.

as a liberal, I don't support the expansion of government at all. I think the government should scale back and shift its priorities. We should drastically cut back the military budget, the nsa budget (just cut the nsa completely for all I care), any kind of wasteful pork spending.

The government has a responsibility to spend tax money wisely and in a way that benefits society - invest in public transportation, education, universal healthcare (completely outlaw health insurance. Health insurance is one of the key factors in the rising cost of healthcare), programs that can create jobs (much like the CCC did under FDR's presidency)

Its not really a matter of larger government to me, its a matter of smarter, more responsible government.

but i'm basically just blowing hot air out of my ass saying this because the government is going to keep spending money on shit that makes our lives worse and not better.

 

I believe the government should be smaller than what it is while at the same time have economic policies that are more focused on the majority rather than the rich.

If the monopolies were busted up, balanced trade was pursued instead of "free trade" and taxes were changed back to being progressive than the government wouldn't need to take care of people with a myriad of subsidies.

The answer really lies in raising wages and the government has done everything it can to lower them over the past 33 years.

 

The problem here is, since Nixon suspended the transfer of dollars to gold, he promised these oil rich countries military protection, in exchange for trading oil, with our worthless dollar. This means the system is built around having a strong military. I agree that we can drastically cut our military spending, but, eventually our system of counterfeiting money, is going to catch up to us, and we'll have to live below our current standards.

There's a few problems here. Government monopolies always cause higher prices, low quality of service and, difficult distribution to the people.

For example, you're talking about the high prices of healthcare, which was caused by 40 years of medicare; When the government subsidizes prices, prices go up. This is what happened with college tuition. The other thing is, government companies always lose money, whereas corporations make a profit. Take the post office as opposed to Fed Ex or UPS.

More people had health insurance, or could pay their doctors out-of-pocket, before the government got involved.

Another issue is that government can't create jobs, (unless their government jobs,) which is directly expanding government, and creates a bigger burden on the middle/working class taxpayer.

I'm not the mean and cold person Liberals paint me up as- I just care about the Middle and working class, who have to pick up the check for the rich and poor of this country. They're really the ones getting the bad deal; they pay all this money into a system, that doesn't help them at all. Then, with this new healthcare mess- they have a brand new tax for that.

I mean, Liberals like to portray themselves as caring, but, it's easy to spend money that isn't yours. Like, the free pre k many of them support. It sounds nice to give those people a break, and get them 'free pre k,' but the problem there is nothing really free. The Working and middle class is living paycheck-to-paycheck; and they're the ones who aren't entitled to government bailouts or safety nets.

It's not coincidence that Government spending doubled every year after 2001, and that was the same time period we saw the largest decline of the middle class in US history. Too much money is in the hands of government and their corporate buddies

 

Can you explain how raising taxes on the .01%, effects the other general 99.99% of the population?

When in the tax code, the progressive tax scale remains unchanged except for top earners.

And that a flat tax, actually would effect everybody, yet satisfy your ideological view of if one person's taxes get raised they all should, or vice-versa (go down, all taxes for all go down).

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I believe as a center of left liberal, that the corruption we see in legislation that favors corporations happens because lobbyists basically persuade committees to put what they want in the bills.

Legislators aren't pros at understanding every topic. Voters get bought by private campaign money during elections. You can literally trace the money and see how it's gotten as bad as it has.

The average voter is uneducated about politics, MAYBE only understanding the basics of federal, state, local governments, the history behind the revolution, civil war, etc....basic stuff one should have learned in high school.

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The problem with your rhetoric Stp, and pressed rat's as well, is that you guys can't seem to explain why your position on taxes rings with many parallels of what the Republican Party has been saying in their rhetoric.

Catch phrases like: shrink government and cut taxes and rely on charities instead of a government safety net.

Seem more like political marketing talking points rather than a pragmatic discussion and imply that the talking points originate from some think tank group rather than independent thought using the scientific method.

 

25

The problem is that you seem to imply that anything that doesn’t hold your views is somehow a ‘liberal’ bunching together those with leftwing, liberal or rightwing views all together, I mean just look through your list is silly

Again libertarians are liberals, to be liberal is to favour freedom the opposite is to be authoritarian and intolerant of others are you saying you are not liberal?

And for example of what I’ve said above -

But to you anyone that gives any support to Obama is in your definition a ‘leftie/liberal’ even if they were in fact right wing from my point of view.

But many people on the left don’t agree with the Obama Administration on many things I’ve already expressed my view that the Democratic Party is basically a right of centre organization. And I’ve already said that the political system is dominated by wealth, but as explained right wing libertarian policies would make things a lot worse.

Are they supporting Gore or does Gore just happen to have the same viewpoint as them? Again if someone who was right leaning but a believer in manmade global warming would they be a ‘leftie/liberal’ in your view?

 

25

Yes we all know that is your assertion but you continue to ignore all the outstanding criticisms that seem to fatally undermine that assertion

And as explained at length and in detail right wing libertarian ideas would most likely make a bad situation worse – criticisms you still refuse to address, other than to assert we are wrong and you are right.