Jiddu Krishnamurti On The True Artist...

Discussion in 'Art' started by Ajay0, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    ^ To have love when doing things is good, but it isn't the same as doing meditation. No doubt Bach whom you mentioned loved music , and if we take an example of an artist who did commit suicide, Van Gogh, I very much suspect he loved his art.

    Similarly, a woman who cooks for her family has love, but may actually be an atheist, and never have engaged in any meditation.

    There's an old axiom that art is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. The inspiration for some art does seem to come from some kind of spirituality on the part of the artist. But there's a lot of painting that doesn't come out of such an experience, and some of it is definitely out of the top draw. And some of it has a quality of universality too. Take the woks of JMW Turner for example. There's really nothing at all to suggest spirituality in any overt way in Turner's work. I would argue strongly that his painting is better than Osho's by many degrees. I think one would have to be quite closed minded not to see that. Few would argue that Turner wasn't in love with art.

    Then we have the people who whilst spiritually inclined, nonetheless also have a side to their nature of passion or the pursuit of worldly pleasure. One example I can think of would be Fra Fillipo Lippi, who although a Carmelite friar, also had affairs with women (how could he have painted them so convincingly otherwise?). Or from the world of literature, Dostoevsky - definitely a Christian, but also a compulsive gambler.

    The artist and the saint are different creatures, and it's rare to find someone who is both.
  2. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Love, total or unconditional love, and meditative awareness are two sides of the same coin. Where one is , the other is bound to be there.

    The enlightened master Barry Long has stated thus, "When the robot mind is mastered, undisciplined thinking ceases and is replaced by awareness. Awareness can know love. "

    There are atheists who have great value systems as well, and have the capacity to love deeply, independent or irrespective of their belief in God or the Divine. They can turn whatever they do into an art through love for what they do.

    This is what Jiddu Krishnamurti was critical of. You tend to make beautiful or aesthetic what you are interested in or passionate about, and rejects the other aspects of life. Thus a fragmentation of sorts take place which brings imbalance, compartmentalizes the various aspects of life instead of combining it into a harmonious whole. It is the inner imbalance in the mind which is manifesting as the external imbalance outside. And obviously this is ugly and not artistic or beautiful in the true sense of the word.

    It is similar to drawing or painting a certain aspect or detail on the canvas which you like or is passionate about and ignoring the rest of the details of the painting carelessly due to lack of interest.

    A similar analogy can be drawn of a bodybuilder who had built his arms and torso well, but neglected his legs resulting in a lack of symmetry.

    Adolf Hitler was passionate about art himself all his life, and was a painter who sold watercolours of Vienna's sights to support himself in his early years in Vienna. Nero, it is said, was playing the lute when Rome was burning.

    It is important to take into perspective what Krishnamurti said on what true art is....

    Who is the person that you call an artist? A man who is momentarily creative? To me he is not an artist. The man who merely at rare moments has this creative impulse and expresses that creativeness through perfection of technique, surely you would not call him an artist. To me, the true artist is one who lives completely, harmoniously, who does not divide his art from living, whose very life is that expression, whether it be a picture, music, or his behaviour; who has not divorced his expression on a canvas or in music or in stone from his daily conduct, daily living. That demands the highest intelligence, highest harmony. To me the true artist is the man who has that harmony. He may express it on canvas, or he may talk, or he may paint; or he may not express it at all, he may feel it. But all this demands that exquisite poise, that intensity of awareness, and therefore his expression is not divorced from the daily continuity of living.

    And this is similar to what Osho himself stated on the issue....

    A really spiritual person will live life as an art, will create a deep harmony between the body and the consciousness. And this is the greatest art there is. His life will be a joy to see. And he will be fragrant, for the sheer reason that there is no split in his being. The very unity makes him organic; the wound of division is healed.
  3. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Many parents love their children unconditionally, yet never did a minute of meditation. Love is something natural to human beings - it doesn't have to be learned in some school, and it doesn't depend on any kind of cultivated meditative awareness.

    Hitler's art is really not that good, that's one reason he never made it as an artist. Perhaps he could have just about done Christmas cards or chocolate boxes.His work was also completely out of kilter with the movements in Viennese art during his time.

    The artists I mentioned were not people who were creative only on a momentary basis, but artists who worked hard for their entire careers, and are now widely regarded as among the great masters of painting. I just don't see that Krishnamurti's comments are at all applicable. Even if these people were not perfect, their art takes us closer to a vision of perfection.
    Some of the the painters of the renaissance for example may have been far from paragons of virtue (I think they did definitely have spiritual beliefs regardless), but the work still reflects some deep or ideal level. They didn't, contrary to what Krishnamurti says, depict only what captivated their desires. The work was often laid down for them, often religious subjects. Michael Angelo was gay - a great sin at the time. Lippi was a womaniser who broke his religious vows, Caravaggio a violent and drunken rowdy. To say the works of such artists is distorted by their personal desires, or that they only painted what interested them or they were passionate about is simply nonsensical. Unless of course we say they were passionate about their art.

    My opinion is that artists are born, not made. No amount of meditation or cultivation of spirituality will make someone an artist in whom the gift is not present to some degree.

    You can't hang someone's life on your wall .We can't look at the life of a person 500 years ago, only at the work they made.
  4. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    If love is natural to human beings, then the present world would be a sort of heaven by now.

    What you see as love is but attachment, which comes from a need of a sense of security and thereby builds up cravings and aversions, identifications and separativeness . True love gives and never demands or expects.

    Most parents project their own desires and expectations onto their children to satisfy their own unfulfilled egos , thereby creating a conflict with the child's natural wants and inclinations.

    True love along with meditative awareness is an art that has to be learnt ,understood and practiced . The unconscious ego or body-consciousness, propped up by the animalistic genetic tendencies within us which fosters selfishness, however blocks this cultivation of awareness or true love and the further evolution of human consciousness , which is the true purpose of creation.

    This is where the principle of spirit over matter comes into prominence.

    The spiritual writer Suma Varghese have written eloquently on this regard....

    Perhaps one of the parameters by which we could gauge our evolution is to see how much hold the mind and body have on us.
    At the apex of evolution, the mind takes its cues from the spirit and the body from the mind. All three are in perfect alignment, eliminating all conflicts. The more the spirit expands, the more we crest through mental and bodily limitations. The spirit contains it all and through the intellect, determines the most appropriate and loving action. Consequently we shift from low-energy to high-energy people.
  5. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Here art as per Krishnamurti is not implied in merely painting on a canvas, or poetry, or playing on an instrument by the artist or musician. Instead his whole life itself would be an expression of art , and expressing artistic creativity in all aspects of his life.

    He had defined art as thus, "Artistry is to be completely awake and therefore to be skilful in action in the whole of life, and this is beauty."

    'Surely the artist is one who is skilled in action. This action is in life and not outside of life. Therefore if it is living skilfully that truly makes an artist. This skill can operate for a few hours in the day when he is playing an instrument, writing poems or painting pictures, or it can operate a bit more if he is skilled in many such fragments - like those great men of the Renaissance who worked in several different media. But the few hours of music or writing may contradict the rest of his living which is in disorder and confusion. So is such a man an artist at all? The man who plays the violin with artistry and keeps his eye on his fame isn't interested in the violin, he is only exploiting it to be famous, the "me" is far more important than the music, and so it is with the writer or the painter with an eye on fame. The musician identifies his "me" with what he considers to be beautiful music, and the religious man identifies his "me" with what he considers to be the sublime. All these are skilled in their particular little fields but the rest of the vast field of life is disregarded. So we have to find out what is skill in action, in living, not only in painting or in writing or in technology, but how one can live the whole of life with skill and beauty. Are skill and beauty the same? Can a human being - whether he be an artist or not - live the whole of his life with skill and beauty? Living is action and when that action breeds sorrow it ceases to be skilful. '

    Here is more of Krishnamurti's views on art so that one can get a correct perspective on his philosophy of art.
  6. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The world is already a sort of heaven - it's just that humans don't see it. Art can maybe provide a small glimpse of that. Even when art depicts ugliness or unpleasant scenes, still it helps people to organize their feelings.It helps to show what is wrong. Works like those of Otto Dix, or Picasso's 'Guernica' come into this category. They seek to show the nastiness that exists in our human world. Other forms of art more along classic lines seek more to show a kind of ideal beauty, something that perhaps doesn't even exist in this world. Something that can inspire.

    I would agree that sexual love is in many cases but not all, somewhat dependant on a response. I wouldn't say that is true of the love of a parent, especially a mother for the child, although in some cases it may be so.
    Those who wish to make love a thing that can only be attained via some form of constructed meditation technique are simply laying a big and unnecessary burden on people, often for their own gain. Such in my view was the case of Rajneesh with his propensity to relieve followers of large quantities of their cash in exchange for telling them just what they wanted to hear, and then spend it on things like fleets of flashy cars.

    However, all this is getting too far away from the topic of art which is the designation of this sub-forum. I feel I've said all I want to say. To summarize, I don't think art is dependent on meditation, or even on spiritual belief on the part of the artist. I myself have spiritual beliefs, and I like some religious art, but I also like paintings such as landscapes. portraiture, even abstract works etc that have no overt spiritual element in them. I also like to sit quietly and meditate, but I don't think I need to learn from someone else how to do that, as it's really the easiest thing.

    To say life is an art is to use the word 'art' in a different sense than that of reference to actual works one can look at, listen to or read. Many people look at the lives of religious teachers such as Jesus or Buddha and maybe they get something from that. But few of them would refer to those lives as art. However I don't want to get caught up in a semantic discussion. Suffice it to say there also exist 'dark arts', and some people gain great proficiency in them. There's an art to the con man for instance. An art of giving a political speech loaded with falsehood and making it sound real and appeal to people. An art of the cult leader. An art of deception, and the list goes on.

    I'd just add that 'skill in action' is often something that requires a training which has very little to do with any form of meditative awareness. Even an enlightened person can't for instance necessarily fix a faulty car unless they happened to train as a mechanic. That's probably one reason why Osho's painting looks amateurish, because he never learned to paint properly. He lacked the skill required. And really to me it's very questionable just how far his enlightenment went - not far enough to miraculously bestow the gift of art evidently.

  7. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    I read in the net that 25 % of the european population is depressed. Perhaps you confuse heaven with the rising materialism and consumerism in society. But they also bring a corresponding increase in depression and conflict as well which is bound to be so due to the inordinate attachment to sense-objects.

    After the invasion of France, with many thousands killed on both sides, Hitler was seen touring Paris a few days later with renowned architect Albert Speer and sculptor Arno Breker.

    So why was western art , with all its inspiring ideals and capacity to help people organize their feelings, fail in the case of an art enthusiast like Adolf Hitler.
  8. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The majority of Europeans aren't really that interested in art. More dominated by money, technology, materialism. And I doubt that art is going to make any difference at this point in history. It lacks the power to do so. But I didn't say that art is going to save the world - simply that it can give people an uplift. If you disagree with that, then what's the point in art at all? Simply for decoration? Why should so called 'objective art' have an effect any different from the art that already exists? Is a person more likely to move away from materialism etc if they look at Osho's pictures than if they look at those of Da Vinci? I can't see it. In fact the work is on such a level that it might be more likely to put people off looking any further at what he had to say on other matters. If you look at a painting by Leonardo, it immediately has an impact that a few black squiggles with fields of colour simply doesn't produce.
    Or at least that's true for me. And like everyone else, I'm only expressing my own view. In the end I think it's a question of each to his own. Everyone has their own aesthetic values. Or at least I'd say they ought to. Intellectual laziness and lack of education etc mean that for the bulk of the population art in any meaningful sense is a closed book. But so are the fine points of things such as spiritual philosophies.

    I think to emphasize too much on Hitler's liking for art is a mistake. He failed as an artist, became traumatized during World War I, and is generally remembered as a military dictator rather than a failed artist. The fact that bad people like art isn't really much of a surprise. It's a thing humans in general do like. If not it wouldn't exist. Even the earliest humans produced art. Along with science, philosophy and religion it's been one of the main ways in which human beings seek to come to a better understanding of the world.

    The art produced by the Nazis isn't pure art. It's meant entirely for propaganda purposes. The artist under such a regime isn't free to express him or herself, but everything has to be subordinated to a political ideology. Same is true of the Soviets. One of the things I find worrying about this whole idea of objective art is who is to be the arbiter of what is and isn't objective? The Soviets for example put people like dissident artists in gulags. If the only art we are allowed to appreciate is what is approved by the 'enlightened' we're heading for trouble. Because one man's enlightened being is another man's charlatan.
  9. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    When an artist creates a work of art, say a painting, poem, novel, musical sculpture..., it is not only his artistic ability that gets impressed on his creation, but also the state of consciousness of the artist as well. This point should be borne in mind.

    If the state of consciousness is high, the viewer of the art work will have his consciousness ascending to the same higher state, and similary descending to an inferior state if the state of consciousness of the artist is pretty low.

    The lower chakras such as the Swadhisthana chakra is associated with the sexual centre, which is pretty low in the hierarchy of chakras. The hierarchy of chakras themselves deal with corresponding states of consciousness in an ascending manner.

    The muladhara and swadhisthana chakras which deals with the emotions and needs of self-preservation and sex , whereas the sahasrara chakra associated with bliss and wisdom is at the highest of the chakras.

    Degenerate art is that which reduces the state of consciousness to a very low level. An example is of horror films which come under these and subjective art. There are many incidents of people being inspired to commit crimes after watching such movies which one can read in the newspapers itself. Similarly I have read of a serial rapist and killer who had been exposed to his grandfather's hidden collection of pornographic tapes as a young child.

    We have also seen in the above posts, research papers on plants getting retarded or dying out after being exposed to certain kinds of music , and blooming and growing healthily when exposed to certain others.

    Music therapy is used as a healing art by certain therapists to improve mental and physical health of patients.CD's of vedic chants in sanskrit are used in India for healing purposes which has been noted for its efficacy .

    This is the fine difference between subjective and objective art and its applications .

    Objective art, if understood and used intelligently can be used to for creating better health in the individual,society and living beings.

    Hitler was a man who had painted a substantial number of paintings in his youth, more than a thousand in his own words, took it as a profession , associated with professional painters to learn the craft, and kept on painting in his spare time as a soldier.

    He maybe a failure as a professional painter, but the fact is that the sbustantial amount of time he spent on art in his life, failed to transform him into a good human being, sensitive, humane and compassionate.

    He painted the picture of Mary and Jesus, who were both jews, but did not hesitate to send millions of Jews to their deaths. Western art could not make a substantial impact on him and refine his emotions and sensibilities, though he spent much time in its midst, more than the average man.

    Therein lies the failure of western art, which is mainly subjective art, as Osho put it.

    Art is the midpoint between the material and the spiritual, and its function would be to harmonise these opposites in human society for its healthy functioning.

    Western art, as I pointed out, is inadequate in this regard . Imho, these deficiencies could be addressed by incorporating 'Objective art philosophy' as taught by George Gurdjieff and Osho, and the philosophy of living art holistically and not just in fragments, as pointed out by Jiddu Krishnamurti.

    The arbiter is obviously one's own self , because the whole focus of objective art is to create art from a higher state of consciousness manifest in awareness or love. If the objective artist creates art from this state, he will succeed in communicating his inner state to the viewer as well, and succeeds in developing his or her consciousness as well. And if the viewer is sensitive, he will be able to perceive this as well on his part.
  10. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Osho emphasized catharsis for the modern man to get rid of his sexual tensions by expression and vigorous activity so as to relax himself. Many of his meditations like Dynamic Meditation and Gibberish are based on this initially. He speaks on the need for chaotic activity in the beginning by the meditator here.

    Osho never advocated drugs, but he understood that people used it as their search for higher states of consciousness in the west was stifled and drugs provided the release for it. He explains this over here.

    He prioritized meditation and introduced meditation in the understanding that the natural meditative bliss can help them overcome their addictions to external stimulations like drugs, for attaining higher states of consciousness.

    The good thing about rock and roll is that you can dance vigorously and uninhibitedly to it expressing yourself, which helps one to uncoil the hidden tensions within and relax oneself.

    Osho worked on the level of modern man and youth, who liked rock and roll, and used it wisely to bring about a needed catharsis in them.

    In fact his meditations Dynamic Meditation ,Active Meditation and Gibberish meditations have these methods of vigorous activity, so that the meditator can express himself fully physically and verbally so as to release all the hidden tensions and repressed emotions,
    thoughts and feelings.

    It is only after one goes into this does one go to the next stage of silent and stationary meditation.

    This was an offer made by Osho's friends to him, and not Osho on his own.

    You can read his description on why he has 365 rolls royces over here where he responds to an interviewer asking why he loves his 365 Rolls Royces so much.

    Because of the fact that Osho advocated free sex especially amongst repressed people , and denounced organised religion and government controls and conditioning through propaganda mechanisms, virtually every nation and religion on earth was staunchly against him . And that probably brought about his untimely death as well.

    As author Tom Robbins stated, ""Osho is the most dangerous man since Jesus Christ... He's obviously a very effective man, otherwise he wouldn't be such a threat. He's saying the same things that nobody else has the courage to say. A man who has all kinds of ideas, they're not only inflammatory - they also have a resonance of truth that scares the pants off the control freaks."

    But fortunately or unfortunately ( for control freaks) Osho's popularity increased dramatically after his death, and his books are bestsellers in almost every nation on earth.

    “Osho is probably the most published person in the world. His books have been translated into many languages that include Chinese, Japanese, Russian and Spanish. This gives them a taste of what he preached, and then they want to come here to get the complete experience,” says Vatayan, 66, a retired teacher from Germany .

    As I have said , Osho's books are world bestsellers, and his paintings are usually put in their covers.

    So you can say that Osho has made an impact as a painter as well, probably more than any other painter on earth as well, considering the pace at which his books with his paintings in its covers are sold.

    I would like to know why you seem to subscribe to the conditioned world view that he was a charlatan , instead of a sage and great philosopher, writer, poet and artist, a popular professor in university in his younger days, and a skillful orator and debater as a student which brought him credentials as a national debate champion.

    Here are some of the accolades he has gotten from around the world ....

    "Never before or after have I encountered anybody having such a harmonious and immensely creative view encompassing art, science, human psychology and religiousness. Certainly we would lack substantially without his vision of the new man."
    Dr. A. Schleger, Ph.D., Institute of Technology, Switzerland

    "I found No Water, No Moon one of the most refreshing, cleansing and delightful books I could imagine. It is a book which will never cease to be a comforting companion." Yehudi Menuhin

    "I have never heard anyone so beautifully and playfully integrate and then dissolve the psychological problems which, for generations, have sapped our human energies." Rev. Cain, Chaplain, Churchill College Cambridge

    "Without question the most inspired, the most literate and the most profoundly informed speaker I have ever heard anywhere. Everything he says in his philosophy of life has the unmistakable ring of truth: a new experience." Jean Lyell, Vogue, UK

    Within a few years from now Osho's message will be heard all over the world. He was the most original thinker that India has produced: the most erudite, the most clear-headed and the most innovative. And in addition he had an inborn gift of words, spoken and written.
    The like of him we will not see for decades to come...He has to be judged as a thinker, and as a thinker he will rank amongst the giants." Khushwant Singh, Former editor of The Times of India; author and historian

    "Here was a guru unencumbered by tradition, an Enlightened Master who could quote Heidegger and Sartre, and who furthermore believed in technology, capitalism, and sex... (Osho) was a brilliant lecturer.... One of his lectures ended with a description of a dewdrop sliding off a lotus leaf and being carried down a stream to the ocean. It put virtually everyone in his audience into an alpha-wave state at ten in the morning." Francis Fitzgerald (Pulitzer prizewinner), The New Yorker, USA

    "He is the rarest and most talented religionist to appear this century." Kazuyoshi Kino, Professor of Buddhist Studies, Hosen Gakuen College, Tokyo, Japan

    Enlightened people like Osho are ahead of their times. It is good that more and more young people are now reading his works."
    K R Narayanan, President of India

    "Osho is an enlightened master who is working with all possibilities to help humanity overcome a difficult phase in developing consciousness." The Dalai Lama

    As a result of reading The Golden Future (and many other works by Osho) I would like to let you know that I completely and heartily support the vision of Osho. As a writer I hope that his words will reach the hearts of those who need them most. I have every faith in this result, because the words of Osho are loaded with the power of love." Douwe de Groot, writer

    Osho's position as an important mystic and philosopher is supported by an international following and a host of publications. His work is that of all great religious leaders-bringing God to man...Osho's lively appeal: jokes, limericks, verse, and tales combined with traditional religious themes." Library Journal, USA

    "He Osho is the greatest incarnation after Buddha in India. He is a living Buddha." Lama Karmapa, late head of the Kargyupta, (or Red Hat) Sect of Tibetan Buddhism

    "Osho will long be remembered as a great philosopher - saint and mystic of the twentieth century. His life and work will continue to inspire future generations of humankind and his powerful message of essential unity of mankind will help us to evolve a new global code of ethics for the improvement of the human condition."- Dr. Manmohan Singh,former prime minister of India

    "Osho advocated meditation for everyone, but his technique was revolutionary, beginning not with stillness and silence but with violent activity to release pent-up energy and emotions, leading to a state of calmness in which meditation can flourish. ...This (poona ashram) is an ideal place for people to learn the dozens of meditations he designed. There's swimming meditation, dancing and martial arts meditation, smoking meditation, walking meditation, breathing meditation and meditation for couples." Washington Post

    "Remarkable books."
    Nicholas Mosley, Daily Telegraph, UK

    "Osho continues publishing very good spiritual texts indeed. These on Zen are direct and whimsical. ...Osho has a no-mind to his comments, sudden bursts of insight, novel ways of putting together images so that you read in an enchanted wonder."
    The Book Reader, USA

    "Many subjects of interest to psycho-historians are taken up by (Osho) in this fascinating series of talks - from esoteric topics to more familiar subjects like sex, child rearing, and the place of mind in understanding the world." The Journal of Psychohistory, USA

    "These are fundamental works on knowing oneself and the world. Osho's comments are truly unique." Corriere de la Serra, Italy

    "Osho has a no-mind to his comments, sudden bursts of insight, novel ways of putting images together so that you read in enchanted wonder. Any spiritual teacher who has such bad publicity must be saying some wonderfully terrible things. Tune in."
    The Book Reader, USA

    "Osho's speech just flows. It's not the 'what' but the 'how' that captures you." Bunte, Germany

    "Osho is one of the most influential spiritual teachers of the second half of the 20th century and many thousands of people -- of all ages, from all countries and all spiritual backgrounds -- have been inspired by the simplicity and directness of his teachings."
    Penguin Books

    "Osho's position as an important mystic and philosopher is supported by an international following and a host of publications. His work is that of all great religious leaders-bringing God to man...Osho's lively appeal: jokes, limericks, verse, and tales combined
    with traditional religious themes." Library Journal, USA

    "In a language simple but yet profound, the master Osho indicates the art of 'dying' by learning how to live in the here and now, the eternal life." Livres Hebdo, France

    "Now that religion has become just a formality, and the burning messages of the buddhas who have been on earth degraded to mere formal faith, the message of Osho, who has reached to such dazzling heights of human consciousness through his own experience, is incomparable in its strength to pierce the beauty within our hearts." Boston Club, Japan

    "The way Osho is using language -- casual, provocative, iconoclastic -- is really new." Parmita, Buddhist Newsletter, Italy

    "In this volume on Bodhidharma, Osho brings him to modern sensibilities but in a contemporary and interesting manner. Nearly 400 fascinatingly intelligent pages of questions and answers, lectures, writings, etc. A revolutionary, contemporary, utterly irreverent way to the spirit." The Book Reader, USA

    "Remarkable discourses...wise and clear."
    Book Review, De Kaarsvlam

    "He quotes Jesus, Buddha, Mahavira, Lao Tzu, Sufis and old Zen masters with stupendous memory, interpreting them with a freshness and directness as if they were speaking today, as if they wore jeans." Die Zeit, Germany

    "One of the ten people; along with Gandhi, Nehru and Buddha; who have changed the destination of India."
    Sunday Mid-Day, India

    "He wanted to be called simply Osho, because Osho is a sound that heals, and reminds us about the ocean with its infinite wisdom and mystery. In fact Osho is the greatest guru of the 20th century. As Gandhi did, he had a commune in India. Osho's commune in Pune still exists and is visited by 100,000 people every year. Osho died in 1990 aged 59, but for all the people that come close to him his spirit keeps inspiring love, consciousness, and joy." Vera, Italy

    "Osho is not trying to purvey information, but a truth that bypasses conscious thought and all that belongs to it, just as the most important activities of human beings bypass the mind."
    Bernard Levin, The Times, UK

    "Of all the great blessed spiritual masters, Osho is the one who speaks most clearly on the role of energy expanding and fulfilling people's consciousness." Gabriel Rosenstock, Irish Book Review

    "Osho has the ability to make the esoteric seem instantly appealing and utterly obvious."
    Meditation Magazine, Canada

    "No other master is known to me who is working as universally as he is." Esotera, Germany

    "As a former orthodox Christian, I felt a continual sense of both joy and apprehension at this new possibility for approaching Jesus. Doubt and trust pulled me in two directions, until finally I fell in love with the words of this Indian Master and his view of Jesus."
    Glenn Moyer, Yoga Journal, USA

    "In his five-volume set on Zen, Osho is at the top of his form. He talks about Gurdjieff, Gertrude Stein, drugs, Aldous Huxley, and everything under the sun." The Book Reader, USA

    "There are many readers of his books in Japan. What is special about Osho is that he dares to make statements on subjects which are related to society, subjects the old Zen masters tried not to touch." Zen Bunka, Japan

    "Osho delivers his theses with humor and rhetoric brilliance, indeed complacent, but with an irony that actually enhances and exhilarates." Der Spiegel, Germany

    "But who was this man who was enchanting these young people, and teaching them how to get rid of all their conditionings -- political, religious and family -- without giving them any new beliefs? His knowledge of the West was as formidable as his knowledge of the East.
    From Buddha to Jesus, from Heraclitus to Marx, from the Indian mystic Tilopa to Jung, from Zen to the Sufis, from Yoga to Tantra, he would point out the strengths and weaknesses of each doctrine…. [He] was the Master who would not give solutions, but simply provide a space to let go of the madness caused by living a life where the body, mind, being and soul were not connected…. Like Socrates he [Osho] was considered a corrupter of the morals of young people; like all true philosophers he demolished a belief system that produced only unhappiness, not joy. His greatness was that he didn't give solutions, only tools for people to realize themselves... Talking about an India that we don't often remember, the India where meditation and looking inwards were priorities, Osho shows that those qualities belong not only to India from the days of Buddha but are part of our present too." Elle, Italy

    In this volume on Bodhidharma, Osho brings him to modern sensibilities but in a contemporary and interesting manner. Nearly 400 fascinatingly intelligent pages of questions and answers, lectures, writings, etc. A revolutionary, contemporary, utterly irreverent way to the spirit."
    The Book Reader, USA

    "For those who think that Osho is the guide and they must become his followers, there is a bad news. Servility, the staple food that most other gurus insist on feeding their "disciples," is not encouraged by Osho. There are no -isms, only thinking and self-meditation can really take you beyond the shallow and self-destructive existence that Osho criticizes."
    The Asian Age, UK

    "He quotes Jesus, Buddha, Mahavira, Lao Tzu, Sufis and old Zen masters with stupendous memory, interpreting them with a freshness and directness as if they were speaking today, as if they wore jeans." Die Zeit, Germany

    "In a language simple but yet profound, the master Osho indicates the art of 'dying' by learning how to live in the here and now, the eternal life." Livres Hebdo, France

    "What is left is Osho's teaching about life as "Zorba the Buddha," to be as free as Alexis Zorba and as aware as Buddha. Obviously Osho's cocktail, a mixture of religious science, philosophy, psychology and meditation, is in accordance with the zeitgeist at the end of
    the millennium. …Osho broke with social taboos, rattled at ideologies, moral views and at the image of respected political and religious leaders such as Gandhi or Mother Teresa." Facts Magazine, Switzerland

    "Of all the great blessed spiritual masters, Osho is the one who speaks most clearly on the role of energy expanding and fulfilling people's consciousness." Gabriel Rosenstock, Irish Book Review

    "The novelty of Osho's teachings is the adaptation of Eastern spiritual wisdom for the Western audience. This may explain the success of his books, ranked among the top-ten best-selling non-fiction." La Republicca, Italy

    "When we wrote and prepared for shooting Vanilla Sky, I constantly checked in with Osho's insights. It is not so easy to present the unconscious mind with images and a story. Osho is the only one who can perfectly explain it all, the inner and the outer and that helped
    me and my team immensely"- Tom Cruise, actor

    "I grew up with Osho around me. He was controversial because he had the courage to speak the truth."
    - Mallika Sarabhai, famous dancer

    "I have read most of [Osho's] books and listened to tapes of his talks, and I am convinced that in the spiritual tradition, here is a mind of intellectual brilliance and persuasive ability as an author."
    James Broughton, poet, and author

    "I really got into Osho's books. I have always loved his books. They were top notch." Marianne Williamson, author

    No one is more qualified to introduce the mystics than Osho, a man who stands out even in their exalted company. He speaks from his own experience, bringing his mystic predecessors to life, making them his contemporaries." John Lilly
  11. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    ^^Trouble is, I'm not interested in what others may say about Osho. To me he is of no interest.

    Millions of people like fundamentalist Islam. Does that mean I should accept it? I think not.

    Please don't waste your time in trying to convert me to Osho, because it is a waste of your time. A self serving charlatan is all I see.

    If you don't like western art, don't look at it. That would be my advice.
  12. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    It is not important whether you accept Osho or not , and whether you are interested in him or not. Truth obviously has to stand on its own without any external crutches.

    The above accolades are put over there to establish his credentials as a philosopher and art critic whose views are worthy of being considered by anyone. There it ends. There is no hard and fast rule that Osho has to be necessarily taken into consideration by every tom,dick and harry.

    That would be an emotional reactionary attitude, which is contrary to awareness.

    I only have given an input in this regard. There it ends. :sombrero:
  13. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    When you say though that it's all on an inferior level, why would you want to waste your time?
  14. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    I have never said that 'it's all on an inferior level' . You have misinterpreted whatever I wrote . I have only stated that there was some deficiencies in western art that can be addressed with Krishnamurti's and Osho's views on art.

    Art , like everything else in life constantly keeps evolving. If it does not evolve, it gets stagnant and regressive.

    Subjective art , as I mentioned before, has its utility, but combined with objective art , the purpose of art will be better fulfilled.

    Citing a similar example, Swami Vivekananda, an eastern spiritual master and philosopher toured the west in the 1890's teaching meditation and eastern philosophy. While touring europe he stated that europe was a war camp with the stench of war.

    If meditation and eastern philosophy, which stresses the unity of all life and existence, was taken seriously by the west and its philosophers in those times, in all probability the two world wars and the genocides that took place could have been avoided, along with the present war on terrorism which has its roots in the holocaust perpetrated in the second world war leading to the creation of Israel.

    Swami Vivekananda stated in a speech in 1897, "The whole of Western civilisation will crumble to pieces in the next fifty years if there is no spiritual foundation. It is hopeless and perfectly useless to attempt to govern mankind with the sword. You will find that the very centres from which such ideas as government by force sprang up are the very first centres to degrade and degenerate and crumble to pieces. Europe, the centre of the manifestation of material energy, will crumble into dust within fifty years if she is not mindful to change her position, to shift her ground and make spirituality the basis of her life."
  15. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Whenever I read or see something that says "a true so and so" I start having a bit of a laugh. Lol. That's a great personal opinion you got there, mate. :D
  16. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Thank you. :)

    If I may ask, what does the 'red,white and black colours ' in your signature stands for ! Is it a flag's colours ?
  17. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    They are the colors of the Imperial flag of Deutschland pre WW1. Kaiser. :)
  18. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Wow, that's so cool, dudette. :rockon:

    I hope I never get the misfortune of becoming the 'enemy'. [​IMG]
  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Your comments could easily be interpreted to mean that you think western art is inferior, as dividing art into objective and subjective, and saying subjective art is based on sexuality, whilst objective comes from a higher or meditative state, does have that kind of ring to it.

    I disagree that art is evolving, unless we say films etc are art, in which case they are getting better. Not so of painting, sculpture, music, literature though which seem to me to be stuck in a trough from which they seem unlikely to emerge. Art in the old fashioned sense has ceased to occupy the central place in European culture it once did, and I doubt it will ever really make a comeback.

    I quite like Vivekananda, but I think he was wrong abut Europe crumbling 50 years on from 1897. It nearly did, but emerged after the wars in a better state. Nowadays that's unravelling. Meantime, India is becoming more materialistic and westernized, and has it's own nuclear weapons, and plenty of homegrown problems of its own. Probably the entire world is now a 'war camp' on some level. Hard to find an historical epoch when that wasn't so to some extent.

    The reasons why Europe lacks spirituality are complex. And it isn't entirely lacking. What I don't think is helpful is for Europeans to seek to convert to eastern religions, and as I recall, Vivekananda had the same idea. One can perhaps learn from many sources and traditions, but for westerners to seek to become Hindus for instance is not something that works very well.

    Materialism isn't only a European phenomenon. It's swept most of the world over the last century, and today it's getting even more of a grip.
  20. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    This shows that you have not properly covered or understood what has been put over here.

    The second world war ended in 1945 , with casualties of over a hundred million killed , injured and traumatised.

    Europe was indeed considerably weakened and it ceased to be the power it used to be till then. The better state it emerged probably could be that it lost it's warring tendencies of the past and became more pacifist and humanistic, having witnessed enough bloodshed and brutality to take out all the glamour out of soldiering and war and make it look nauseous instead.

    I had not hinted anywhere that the west should embrace Hinduism . Only that western art could embrace Objective art as taught by George Gurdjieff and Osho.

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