Is There Any Room For God In Modern Science?

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Jimbee68, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    You don't consider the natural ecosystem and evolution to be a complex system that serves a useful purpose?

    Can you prove that this natural process wasn't also a design?
     
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  2. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    Evolution happens by chance. I can prove that it wasn't a design, because there is no designer. Some make the assumption that there must be one despite there being no evidence for this and invoke the idea of God in doing so.
     
  3. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Isn't human engineering part of a design? And aren't humans part of evolution? So how is evolution by chance when our engineering is part of evolution and our engineering includes design and not just chance?

    How can you prove that there is no designer? Lack of evidence equals proof? If I'm playing hide and go seek, and you can't find me and conclude that i must not be in the room because there is no evidence for me, then that must mean i'm not there? This is Science?
     
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  4. You're just silly and superstitious, dude. Don't take me too seriously, okay? I'm not that important. Even if I sound like someone who must think they're that important because they're saying they're not important...I'm really not important. I have a regular job and no one ever pays any attention to me. So I don't see why you should suddenly be in an uproar about anything I've said.

    I am not incessantly provoking others in any way. I just got annoyed with you for calling my arguments "crap arguments" and treating me in a condescending manner. I actually ignored your petty insults for quite a while before I just gave up and called you a douche. You think all arguments on this board are personal issues waiting to be exposed, while I was trying from the outset to be a friend to you. Maybe one who was asking questions you deemed foolish or trivial, but you just had to act like me and Chinacat don't even exist. Like we're just morons in a disgusting sandbox who think you give a shit about our sandcastles. You don't want us to believe in our sandcastles.

    I don't have my own computer, so I don't have time to engage in a lot of conversations at once. I think so far the thread is a success without me. I like the point Asmo made, but I haven't been able to say so, because I've been too busy focusing on this thread. Maybe I come off as a moron because I have such a limited time on the computer. I'm looking to buy one soon.
     
  5. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    I knew you were going to go there ... Engineering requires a high level of intelligence and understanding of principles. Cyanobacteria have neither. They do not engineer, they do not design .. they just live. There are side effects of their existence, but they do not have the capacity to anticipate what they may be.
     
  6. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    To assume that Nature isn't highly intelligent is a sad mistake. If you want to talk about complex systems then look no further than the ecosystem.
     
  7. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    So any complex system is intelligent?
     
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  8. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    You really honestly feel that Nature lacks any intelligence? And regarding the complex system, you were the one to initially make a point about complex systems in regards to intelligence.
     
  9. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    IIRC, i was positing that consciousness arises from complex systems with a sufficient degree of integration. This is not the same as intelligence, or even the appearance of intelligence.
     
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  10. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    but small organisms and animals also have consciousness...
     
  11. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    sure, I believe there are probably varying degrees of consiousness, same with intelligence in organisms. Do you believe that bacteria were "intelligent" enough to collaborate, and decide to engineer the atmosphere of the planet so we might have a chance at evolving eons later? Did they have intent when they did this?
     
  12. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    No. But we were talking about a higher designer.
     
  13. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I am definitely not the most superstitious one here. :rofl:

    ChinaCat thanked me for being tactful in my responses earlier, don't drag him into this. I spent the past several pages responding to you so unless that's another one of your (unfunny) jokes, then I really don't know what you're talking about.
     
  14. You were just laughing at my joke about you being superstitious. You aren't tactful in your responses. You're a douche in your responses. Chinacat got the same type of response from relaxxx that I got from you. That's why I'm "dragging him into this." (As if this is really the huge fucking deal it is in your pathetic mind.)
     
  15. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    Quit trolling, learn to analyze statements better.
     
  16. Jesus Christ dude, calm down. I realize you're Mr. Smarty Pants, okay? No butt hurt feelings. You're still my Mr. Smarty Pants and I'll always love you.
     
  17. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I take it you ascribe to the notion of a Gaian Mind. Are we to infer that humans have become more intelligent than nature, or Gaia? If not, how do you reconcile that first paragraph with this??


    As if our damage to nature is somehow separate to nature itself.
     
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  18. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Of course it's not separate from nature itself. But to what end is this destruction? What's the evolutionary reason for it?
     
  19. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    Organisms either adapt to their environment or develop the ability to change their environment. Environment changes, process repeats.
     
  20. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    None of that refutes the way an artist creates and destroys his art, and therefore still does not refute a Creator.
     

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