Is There Any Room For God In Modern Science?

Do you consider anyone's contemplation of Aliens noble, though? Is SETI's contemplation of aliens noble? Was Frank Drake being noble when he thought up the Drake equation?

I guess by noble I mean can someone contemplate these things in a way that is intended to be helpful (whether it ever is helpful or not.) I guess it's a pretty funny idea that someone could be trying to be helpful when contemplating leprechauns. I don't really see God as this magical man who can grant us immortality, though. I just wonder if there is some all-powerful, self-aware being.

 

That's a loaded question, one could make endless justifications for considering ideas 'noble'. For instance, what would be funny about if someone earnestly thought leprechauns possessed an excess of gold and found it 'noble' to explore their existence, in hopes of being able to help balance the federal budget or end global poverty?

I am glad SETI exists, I really do not know why it is 'off the hook' in terms of exploring unfounded phenomena, however it is mostly privately funded if I'm not mistaken. I guess one tentative defense I'd offer which separates searching for aliens from the other phenomena, is that if we consider the amount of stars in a galaxy alone, and we assume that planets within the 'Goldilocks' zones of their stars have a tendency to produce life, and we utilize the Drake equation, then the likelihood of Planet's which support life as we know it is probably a fairly large figure, like in the thousands.

So it is not like we are starting this exploration based off subjective experiences of alien abductions and even with that said, there are some detractors of the Drake Equation and consider aspects of it dubious. Also, while it is conjecture, based on what we observe of the dynamics of life here on Earth, that if there is intelligent lifeforms out there, they could potentially pose a threat to us or on the flipside perhaps provide significant advancements in capabilities and knowledge.


Some of the ideas of polytheistic religions had the same sort of tone as my conjecture to aliens, perhaps even more human-like, however most modern monotheistic anthropomorphozations of God seem to make it like this deity which is fairly ineffable in character except for that he's in your corner so to speak... or something.

What does all-powerful mean to you if it cannot even post a video blog on this site upon request as we exemplified?

That is something most humans could do upon request if alerted, probably some cats, dogs and animals too with a bit of assistance. There is an obvious constrain here with that example, that makes it difficult for me to really see how you maintain that type of wonderment.

 

Ridiculous anecdotal stories, nobody's BRAIN is every going to DIE and come back to talk about it. You are either incredibly dumb and gullible or wickedly dishonest. You may fool stupid people but intelligent people are not going to let you pervert science to suit your crooked delusional fantasy world, gypsy scam artist, bat shit crazy superstitious beliefs.

 

No ones brain is ever going to talk. Who is it that speaks by the way, the lower third of the left lung or perhaps the big toe on your right foot?

As far as the dead coming back to talk, there is no limit to the province of mind. Bertrand Russel who claimed that when he died nothing would remain of him didn't account for the continuing influence of his shared or recorded thoughts. Mind doesn't need a particular body to express itself, any body will do as long as there is somebody.

Your diagnosis of what chinacat must be, are ridiculous comparisons, by definition. There is no reason to assume incredible dumbness and gullibility go together nor is there a scientific classification called wickedly. It is wearisome to see someone who claims to be intelligent minded be so consumed by his unintelligent prejudices. As much as you guys are going to pound on others for being less than seriously thoughtful, so I am tempted to do to you.

 

Wondering what all powerful means to you? Does it mean subservient to requests? Not coming down on any side just dealing with the terms written.

Perhaps it would be counter productive to have your limited lesson in power account for what all powerful is.

The things I wonder about I truly wonder about and curiosity doesn't need to be maintained.

 

If you are awareness that is all power in itself.

As far as being totally aware it seems the universe is made of information and every bit itself is fully informed. We are relatively informed but no less than every bit informed. There is no difference between the all knowing and the knowing. This is understood as we become familiar.

 

I must have missed the links to all the legitimate medical documentation with doctor verification and brain activity monitor recordings that proved that someone was CLINICALLY BRAIN FUCKING DEAD for 3 hours. Please provide all the empirical scientific evidence so I can be shown how stupid I am.

 

It would include displaying powers to a request. To suggest it is subservient would be a limitation to power as well though, that's likely heading towards ominpotence paradox territory.

 

To assume subservience would suggest that there is an expenditure of power, which would not qualify as "all" powerful to me.

 

I'm working on finding the exact study of the three hour one. In the meantime...

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11144442/First-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largestever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-9780195.html

 

I wouldn't do it that way. I would point to things you hadn't considered and see if you might become better informed. You say I am not worth responding to and that is only because you don't have a leg to stand on. That is the kind of ignorance that should come to awareness. What empirical scientific evidence do we have that you know what you are talking about? It can only be the accuracy of what you say.

That falsifiability is the standard of demarcation between what is scientific and what is not has in fact been shown to be in question. Demonstrated to be a philosophical position that in practice is a dogma. The whole exercise is here in the thread, if you would like we can go over it all again.

If there is no evidence from the dead there is no reason to even assume the dead exist. There is a mystery as to what makes alive to begin with. We have not yet scientifically unveiled all of our proportions or meanings. As far as self discovery, science is slow to respond to the fact that it needs to take the self seriously.

 

There are some major differences between leprechauns and God, though, as I have stated. For one thing, do millions of people claim they have experienced leprechauns? If they did, I would consider it noble to search for leprechauns anyway, just because it would advance our scientific understanding. If they also sought to pay the deficit, that would just be a bonus. But also there's no conceivable way to disprove God, whereas you could conceivably disprove leprechauns. All we have to do is closely examine the history of leprechauns and decide if one myth about them is definitely impossible, at which point we would have to redefine leprechauns in order for them to conceivably exist.

We're basing it off the subjective experience that if life exists on Earth, it could exist elsewhere. But who knows, maybe life is special on Earth... There's really no reason to believe alien intelligence exists, but it is considered reasonable and scientific to look for them. Isn't this a double-standard? I see God as being just as interesting as aliens; God could even be an alien. All we're really talking about is a higher order of existence.

All-powerful to me just means it possesses all the power that actually exists. It doesn't have to be able to do anything, just everything that's being done.

 

Why would that be the measure of all powerful? That is to limit power to a set of personal requirements. I don't know what paradox it represents. I think primarily limited power is a contradiction in terms. There is an action and we can say it occurs with so many pounds of force but it is not less than that measure.

There is this idea that what is so and what isn't so are in conflict. This isn't possible. What is not so does not exist. The conflict indicates that we do not know what is so over all.

 

Well, are you able to Relaxxx enough to get a clue about the near-death experiences? What do you have to say now?

 

How about you get a clue about what is considered scientific proof. You posting links to hearsay anecdotal stories proves nothing. Plus neither you or your STORIES seem to understand clinical brain death as it can not be diagnosed in 3 minutes. It is just absolutely idiotic, brain cells clinically DEAD will never miraculously come back to life, this is DEFINED by the fucking DEFINITION of CLINICAL BRAIN DEATH!!!! A process that takes multiple reading form multiple doctors observed over multiple hours if needed. Get a clue indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death

 

Clinical death is the medical term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing, the two necessary criteria to sustain human and many other organisms' lives.[1] It occurs when the heart stops beating in a regular rhythm, a condition calledcardiac arrest. The term is also sometimes used in resuscitation research.


...If you truly believe that no person has ever had their heart stop and return to life then you are indeed a dumbass

 

The fact is that even in the classification of death, there is much debate. The difference in our argument is Clinical Death vs. Brain Death. Nonetheless, you can find plenty of cases where one has been pronounced brain dead only to return.

http://time.com/1596/viewpoint-why-brain-death-isnt-an-on-off-switch/



the diagnosis of brain death needs to be rigorous, in order to be certain that the condition is irreversible

This sounds a tad biased. Of course after a certain amount of time it's going to be irreversible. But the debate and the NDE's occur when there still is a possibility to reverse it. The fact is, is even in the medical field, there is a blurryness as to what is considered "death".

 

How fucking thick headed can someone be?!

If a person is diagnosed brain dead and comes out of it then obviously,
THE FUCKING DIAGNOSIS WAS FALSE - WRONG - ERRONEOUS !!!!!
Fer FhuuuuuuuK sakes!!!
because there is a difference in undetectable low activity versus NO fucking activity. That's why there are proper procedures that should be followed but not always are because we live in a world full of fucking idiots.

It's only the dishonest pseudo-scientific sensationalist bullshitters that report 'people returning from dead' to pander to stupid clueless delusional superstitious fucktards determined to live in fantasy spirit land.

 

You're just saying that, by definition, brain death is something that can't be overcome, relaxxx. Chinacat could be saying it is something that could be overcome. If you're already invoking the miraculous, it really makes no difference.

At what moment, exactly, was the brain death overcome would be at question now. Can we ever possess such instrumentation to reveal whether there was a distinct gap between "dead" and "living"? Right now people seem to be dead, but according to you are minutely alive. But if you get into the minutia, what if you discover there is a gap instead, where the person actually was inarguably dead but became alive again?

You can't just say this can't happen and call it science, can you?

 

If we do not have the technology to detect between minute activity and zero activity then it is beyond scientific observation at this time. Moreover it is universally agreed in science and medicine that cellular death is irreversible by definition. Oxygen and sugars are no longer being metabolized and genetic information is breaking down, death is 'GAME the FUCK OVER'! Any cell that recovers from near death was never at any point really actually dead with zero activity. As I stated, NDE's are NOT DEATH experiences. To think otherwise is gross ignorance and misinformation and just plain fucking stupid.