Is Saudi Arabia The Ultimate Evil Empire?

You don't get banned for explaining your opinion. You can get banned for how you bring your point across, but that's always avoidable (and I don't mean by simply not explaining yourself )

 

If you want to say something, say it. No point in pussyfooting.

 

It appears you may get called names either way

This is a fantastic shot. Very intriguing photo somehow. Those faces, some vague hint of the atmosphere.

 

Are they looking at a US 'President' BOWING??

....or on his knees?

 

BBB,

Tell that to the Admins!

 

:unsure: .

 

Don't take yourself (or anyone else) too seriousy. A sense of humor is always helpful online.

Now go fuck yourself. I mean that in a good way.

 

Thank you young 'lady'.

 

I'm not that young.

 

ozjohn

Why do you think you'd get banned?

PM me if you think telling me openly is a risk.

Regards

Balbus

 

The other day I heard someone say that they thought people needed to wake up to the threat from the -

bloodthirsty barbaric cult called islam

Which they thought was -

still rusted into the Dark Ages.

And that in their opinion it was -

A cult that the civilised world will have to fight eventually.

And that they believed -

The world is back to about 1936 when it was dawning on us that hitler had to be opposed.

I disagree but I also know that this view is out there and I’ve heard it in different versions before, so I’m throwing open here.

My own comments are below

 

All religions are cults and there are spiritual (Christian, Islam) and secular (Fascism, Communism) religions, and both can become dangerous, bloodthirsty and barbaric, if uncheck.

I wasn’t sure what was meant by this, if it was in the sense of being ‘not modern’ I say that the German fascist, were very ‘modern’ and efficient in the way they approached the disappearance of what their secular religion thought of as inferior.

If it is meant in some way about ‘thought’ I’m not so sure, are the vast numbers of none Muslims really that different?

It depends on what is defined as ‘civilised’

In the UK a lot of people still were appeasers around that time even in 1940 Lord Halifax and others in the British government thought it was best to seek terms with Hitler. The thing is that in many places the wealth and elite had to some degree admired fascism, and saw it was a bulwark against Communism, which they feared more.

And to a large degree it is the anti-communist policies of the US after WWII that has shaped the way the Middle East is now.

The problem was that too many driving those anti-communist policies anything left wing was communism or a gateway to communism, and so it did a great deal of damage, taking down those that were left leaning - but also liberal minded, reformist, progressive and secular leaning.

The problem is that many people seem to think all Muslims are bloodthirsty and barbaric which just isn’t true. I mean given its history you would have to say the same about all Christians.

 

OK Balbus, but this thread isn't about Islam as such, but the Saudi Arabian state.

Like Islam or dislike it, it's undeniable that in Saudi, many things happen which are an affront to human rights. Many of these abuses have an Islamic justification in sharia law.

There aren't that many non-Islamic countries where people are sentenced to be flogged, have hands cut off. stoned to death etc.

That's not to say that there aren't many non-Islamic countries where human rights abuses take place, but that doesn't justify the Saudis.

 

Am I justifying the Saudi’s, am I justifying human rights abuses?

I’ve been telling people about the Saudi regime since at the least 80’s, did you ever seen the British drama-documentary Death of a Princess?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_Princess

And I’ve learned a lot more since then, especially their role in exporting of extremist Shia ideas through the promotion of Wahhabism, done with the approval and support of US anti-communist policies, for example while the US supplied the arms in the Afghan war against the Soviets the Saudi’s supplied the wahhabi teachers.

[edit]

I'd also like to add that as an atheist, in any regime where some religion had power I'd probably be first up against the wall.

 

OK - I maybe read into your post more than was intended.

One thing though I have to point out - the Saudis aren't exporting Shia. They are Sunni Muslims and Wahibi is a Sunni sect. Shia Islam is probably higher up their hate list than even western democracy.
And in fact, in Syria now we are seeing Saudi and Iran fighting out their doctrinal differences by proxy.

Also I'm not sure it's altogether fair to compare the 20th c facists with the Saudi state and it's Islamic system. The laws the NAZIs and others brought in were clearly laws framed by human beings (however perverse). Not so in the case of Sharia law which claims to come from God himself, and can never be altered.

So to my mind, this lot are worse than the NAZIs, because much more deeply entrenched. It's bad enough when you have human monsters. When you have a divine monster whose will the human monsters claim to be doing, it's a whole other dimension. So it seems to me.

I saw 'Death of a Princess' many years ago.

As a member of Amnesty International, I've lost count of how many letters I've written and petitions signed on the topic of Saudi human rights abuses over many years. And for virtually no result.

 

So far this year, 2015, they've beheaded 110 people.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-has-beheaded-its-110th-prisoner-this-year-10439019.html

 

Those are some sleazy looking "people." Good thing north Korea doesn't have HUGE amounts of oil, for then they'd be our friends.

I'm sorry, but some people just need killed. Those are some excellent candidates. Maybe when the OIL runs out?

 

Balbus, the content of a religion, the actual values and beliefs within it, matter. Islam is lit up with notions of martyrdom and jihad, which are beliefs about how to get to paradise, and values about what is worth living for and dying for.

In the Chechnya/Bosnia conflict, muslim soldiers would place their encampments on top of exposed hills, in the hopes that they would be bombed at night and thus afforded a place in paradise. When one of their comrades died, they would weep with envy at his place by Allah.

When tibetan buddhist monks were tortured for years by the chinese government, with such fun devices as cattle prods, upon their release, they wept because they had been growing so afraid that they would lose compassion for their torturer and stop seeing him as a human being.

These beliefs and values lie on a continuum, with at one end being "compatible with life in the 21st century in a global society" and on the other "antithetical to life in the 21st century and a global society".

Can you be honest enough to place Islam on the right end of that continuum and stop pretending that it's "just like every other religion"? NO religion is like every other religion, they all have unique takes on life, and the take that Islam has, is riddled with very, very bad ideas.

 

There is no such thing ultimate there is only what is real and reality is everything that exists. What is not real does not exist. I don't care to know the particulars because Ihe language is not right.
Nothing I just said was bullshit You will be talking about something that has no basis in reality and day dreaming with each other.

How do we know any thing? The breath goes in and out of the body. I mean if we are speaking it must be because we say it.
I do know there is no authority you will accept but the authority you agree to.

Our language is being missed because we think it exists out there
Our language gives us the world we see and then we look at that shit
That is why you see a meaningless tragic world
Fucked up thing is we react to what we see. we try to patch something that isn't there and end up covering our eyes

I've seen a few things lately that aren't on any map of the world.

The ultimate empire is the only empire reality is every thing that exists

I assure you if you can tell an apple and an orange and a voice from a foot 'You will do okay. You fucking got here somehow but then I guess what happened is we got taught language to communicate =and that got told to shut up. I don't know if that is condusive to saying anything meaningful. But regardless we know each other by air
And blow a bunch of smoke about heroes and villains and far off conquests and wonder how life essentially works. Kinda ignant innit.

Let me ease your mind.

 

oh yeah answer
definitely no