How To Argue For Gun Control.

Mac

The problem is that many cited the ‘bible’ as an excuse to do some terrible things, I mean the KKK claimed they were upholders of ‘Christian morality’.

Again hoping people will suddenly be ‘good’ is like hoping your god will intervene it isn’t a rational argument.

And LOL just above you say - ‘sorry, but don't deal with emotion. I deal with logic and statistics’ now what the fuck is logical about hoping in some big sky fairy.

Again I submit as evidence the above

Already addressed – you don’t seem to have a counter argument beyond you not liking it.

So you are not that good at research and are unable to explain your own thinking in your own words?
Is that why you just repeat stuff rather that been able to give counter arguments?
I suggest you may need to do a bit of deep thinking and take a fresh look at your ideas

Yes because I’m a feeling human being that has empathy for others – I find it hilarious that you talk about biblical morals’ then in the next breath go fuck you to the suffering.

Oh you and your selective memory LOL you do know its all written down so go look it all above, or are you too lazy?

 

Mac


Oh man you are a one – you said - There are some merits to social Darwinism. They may have focused on the wrong group.

LOL pull the other one, it’s not even a good pedal back.

Merit - the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.So LOL you think Social Darwinism is worthy and deserving of praise BUT that doesn’t mean that you agree with it, oh how utterly amiss of me to even think such a thing

LOL ‘move on nothing to see here’ – but I notice you still haven’t answered the question. What parts of Social Darwinism do you think should be praised?

Now who are the ‘they’ you were thinking about?

Oh man you really need to see a doctor about that memory – look just above at the beginning of this post, too difficult for you ok I’ll paste it, again…

There are some merits to social Darwinism. They may have focused on the wrong group.

And again what group?

 

Mac

It came up because you said

I replied to the effect that Social Darwinism was crap

And thats when you said

Still waiting on what your thought on what is praiseworthy, who 'they' were and what group you were thinking about.

As to mocking the idea of your perticular god giving our morals, first a don’t believe in gods and anyway which human invent god are you talking about, there have been many made up by humans, they often had different ‘moral’ codes.

People usually have one that suites their personality I mean there are Christian that hate homosexuals and others that are very happy with them. A bigot that wants to claim be a Christian is likely to go for the former rather than the latter.

I mean I know Christians that are horrified by the lack of gun control in the US because of all the suffering it causes and ones that really like the NHS because of all the suffering it alleviates.

Your Christianity it seems is different to those in that and you prefer such suffering to continue.

 

Scratched

Actually one suggestion was that gun use and safety courses would have to be taken to gain a gun licence and a fail would mean not being able to have a gun, it would also cover mental state as in if someone didn’t seem mature or responsible enough they would be refused a licence.

 

Happily Scratched didn't bet with money

 

so then Trump wouldn't be allowed to purchase a gun, that's a good thing

 

Serious question for the gun owners here. Could there be any attack that would make you reconsider the current gun laws in America or would even the most severe attack reinforce your need for a gun? Let's say for example you knew ISIS went to gun shows and bought guns with cash. Guns that were latter used to kill American Marines.

The Mexican cartels do do this since it's not easy to own guns in Mexico. But they are not the same thing. All they want is to move their product not to attack America as you believe ISIS does.

I ask because closing the gun show loop hole would be great. But from the gun people I know they will NEVER do this. So the whole gun debate seems like lip service. You say you are open to a change in the law if only the right change can be found. But in your opinion there should be no change because change means the goverment knows what guns you own and will soon after make more laws taking guns away. No matter how many people die it's their fault for not having a gun to protect themselves not the gun owning culture in general. So why should you be punished the safe and logical gun owner?

 

it isn't a "need" to own a gun, it's the "right" to own one if one chooses that is at issue.
for me it much more about eroding rights and freedoms more than anything.

well you are making the assumption that buying guns with cash at a show precludes all the background checks and waiting period, it doesn't.
if someone is selling guns "under the table" than that is already a crime.

historically fascist governments have confiscated weapons from the citizenry as part of establishing control and dominance.
so what was the point of your question again?

 

Oh, good, I live in one of the SMART states that require gun control background checks on all purchases.

 

So you don't think the changing nature of what a gun is a factor at all? In 1776 a musket could fire once every few minutes. To be honest yes at that time if you had a musket and decent hand to hand combat abilities with a blade you were equal to any man or goverment but it's not like that anymore. There were no tanks or fighter jets then. If the goverment wanted you would still loose. Don't you think it's a bit silly to think that gun gives you all the power? I find the "governments take guns" argument pretty weak because of this. Espeicly in this age of a war on terror you Joe Public are not going to be allowed to be a serious threat in that way.

The original intent of those amendments was always for every so often for them to be discussed and possibly changed. It's so popular to say well the people who founded this country would agree with me and not you. But who cares they were living in a different time.

But you did answer my question I suppose and it was I always get from gun owners. "hell no it's my right. I don't care what other people do".

About the gun show loophole I've seen the back door deals go down. White men from Texas selling to brown men speaking Spanish offering 10 times what the gun is worth from a bag of American bills but not wanting to go inside only be in the parking lots. I wonder why?

A lot of gun owners are fine with this and the idea that there need not be paper work. And of course the insane profits. If you think it does not happen you don't know your own community

 

Gas

This has been addressed before and is akin to the deeply flawed view that if the German Jews had guns there would have been no holocaust also addressed numerous times.

Lets look at the hitler example that is often brought up (by gun advocate LaPierre amoungst others)

the notion that Hitler confiscated everyone’s guns is mostly bogus. And the ancillary claim that Jews could have stopped the Holocaust with more guns doesn’t make any sense at all if you think about it for more than a minute.

University of Chicago law professor Bernard Harcourt explored this myth in depth in a 2004 article published in the Fordham Law Review. As it turns out, the Weimar Republic, the German government that immediately preceded Hitler’s, actually had tougher gun laws than the Nazi regime. After its defeat in World War I, and agreeing to the harsh surrender terms laid out in the Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. In 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.

The 1938 law signed by Hitler that LaPierre mentions in his book basically does the opposite of what he says it did. “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,” Harcourt wrote. Meanwhile, many more categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.
[SIZE=11pt]http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/[/SIZE]

 

It has to be remembered that Hitler was popular in Germany, especially amongst a certain demographic.

I mean think about it the other way – US gun owners say their guns are in part held to defend against a ‘bad’ government, but what is the definition of a ‘bad’ government. So what is the demographics of gun ownership in the US, well I believe it’s mainly white, male and politically right wing and politically in the US who are the biggest defenders of gun rights, does it come from the right or left?

What do you think they would define as a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ government?

I’ve wondered before if socialism spread in the US and those socialists all began buying guns, I wonder if the right wing establishment and its wealthy backers might begin to change their stance on gun control?

 

My bad, I spoke before doing some fact checking.

 

This is AMERICA!! I believe that all same sex couples should have the right to defend their marijuana fields with fully automatic weapons!

Happy Independence Day!

 

Overpopulation is a very good reason why we need guns. Gun control won't help us when we are overpopulated, take down borders allow anyone in, while at the same time there is not the supply of even water to meet the demands of a growing population. Crime rate Is on the rise because of this.

 

Banning private sells wont solve the issue. People will either sell anyway or get it through straw purchase.

If that's true then how are they aquiring military grade weapons such as grenade and rocket launchers? Things that are highly regulated here in the US.

There is no gun show loophole first of all. Most gun shows are comprised of licensed gun dealers and they follow the same rules as if they were at an established business. If your goal is to make private sales from one individual to another illegal without a background check, how are you going to enforce it? As I said earlier criminals will either sell it to each other anyway, steal it, or get it through straw purchase.

 

Nazi Germany with it's ban on gun sales to Jews.

 

You proposed registration did you not? Well, the UK requires you to register your firearms. You also proposed safe gun storage as mandatory did you not? Well, Australia has a safe storage requirement.

Given above.

Nope. I've presented factual evidence as to why they didn't/don't work.

Yes.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/26/us-murders-concentrated-in-5-percent-counties.html

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

As I said, if you feel that way you're welcome to not reply.

 

I may have used the wrong word but my point still stands. Every idealogy has some good in it.

None right off the top of my head.

"They" refering to the nazis who implemented it.

Again, I was playing devil's advocate. There isn't any group that should be eliminated.