How can god not exist?

Ideas such as these are why Judaism frowns upon idolatry. Things (paper, rock, scissors) are creations, God is a being which you have not (formally) met yet.

 

I take it you are Jewish? Apologies if I am mistaken. Judaism may frown on idolatry, but it also seems to frown on Islam, Christianity, and many other beliefs. This is why I do not wish to be Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim. I accept them all. I do not believe that seeing God in a rock is idolatry, I believe it is one's personal belief, and is as true and valid as yours or mine.

 

well said blackguard.. although from MY personal experience (not meaning its fact, just what ive seen) jewish people frown upon others much less than christians or muslims.. from my perspective anyway

 

Which, of course, leads to the obvious question, "what is the truth?" Again, every society of human beings has set out to define who they are and why they are here. Identifying any one of those views as "truth" is a difficult (if not impossible) pill to swallow. Saying that one believes completely is not enough. A group of Egyptians marched out across hundreds of miles of desert to build a city that faced two mountains. Between those two mountains, the sun rose every morning. These people believed so fervently that the sun was God, they moved away from civilization and went through unbelievable hardship to practice their faith. Are we to assume that any particular interpretation of god is superior to another, or are you simplysuggesting that it is true that god exists in whatever form a following believes?

 

I would say that Judaism has no corner on the market when it comes to feeling that its position is superior--most religions seem to have that as a quality. I believe that isness (please correct me if I am wrong) is describing the omnipresence of god in all things, not the worship of those things in and of themselves. And even if we are discussing the worship of all things as god, that is certainly not a new or strange concept--think of Native American tribes or other groups who are so dependent on the earth and what it provides for survival.

In the end, we are all climbing the same mountain; the path we each take is less important than making the journey of discovery in the first place.

 

I agree with many of the past few posts. I believe in the omnipotence of God and I believe that the presence of God is in everything, including ourselves. I have come to see God the clearist through Hinduism, Buddhism,and Christianity, since that was my first experience with God's power. Since then, I have found an equal truth in many cultures and I love exploring their beliefs. I have read the philosophies of mystics, the Egyptians, the Toltecs and the Mayas, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Shamans, Aborigines, and Native Americans. There is a supreme spirit in their beliefs, but each culture has a unique way of sheding light on and explaining the supreme. The names of God differ but the spirit, the realization, and the truth are all on the same plane. We can find God in any way that lets us see God within and without us and we will come to know God's true nature.


Ben.

 

Nope. No problem.

Seeing God in a rock is not idolatry. Thinking a rock is God is idolatry. Isness said "the rock is God" and some other things.

 

Every individual has a wealth of personally true experiences, whether or not they can communicate these experiences depends on similarity of experience with other individuals. To talk of a higher truth to one who cannot yet experience it is to talk of a blue sky to a blind man. When the blind man is given sight, the descriptions of the blue sky will finally begin to make sense.

Unless you seek knowledge of God based upon your own experience, you will never be satisfied with the explanations others make based upon their experiences. What rings true to your experience? Is this truth something that holds up to scrutiny? Are you missing a vital experience that explains why things are as they are?

Not at all. There are many incorrect beliefs, including the one that the whole following perceives God in the exact same way (otherwise everyone would drink coca cola).

 

They were just one of many "Master Races" that got shown the truth, that God is the master, not some particular race or tribe.

 

You have misunderstood me Kharakov. I only speak of our ignorance and irrationality that allows us to believe in theories. We believe that the rock is a rock, however it does not hold any more truth than calling the the rock god, because god is only a label to describe something, as is the word rock. Because we associate objects with labels and thus associate them as either good or bad, we see disorder in everything. The notion of god relies on what we associate with god, which is only a belief, a theory. It holds no relevance to truth. It is a word used to communicate that which we don't truly understand. If we understood it, I do not think we would be having this conversation.

 

Language works because it uses the similarity of experiences associated with a word to convey a concept or idea.
How do you teach a child the word rock? You point at the rock and say "rock......rock.......rock....". They associate the word with rocks. Same with the word "God" or someones name "Kharakov".

We are taught at an early age to call a rock something other than a rock is a 'lie' or incorrect. If you start calling rocks zebras and mixing up the whole language you are not going to be able to communicate with anyone who communicates in the standard manner. To say 'calling a rock god is as true as calling a rock rock' is incorrect (and a lie) because there is a correct (agreed upon and truthful) usage of the language we are using that allows us to communicate ideas. If you start calling rocks zebras, nobody is going to know what you are talking about (except me and you, because we might remember this conversation).

The reason that we accept standards for language is so that we can communicate ideas and experiences.

Maybe you do not understand God. This does not mean that everyone does not understand God.

 

Nobody can understand god because it is not clear what god is. We have many beliefs, there is no truth in belief. It could be true, it could be false, but as long as the concept is based on theory, we cannot know for certain. The word is for communication, however the word itself means nothing. When we speak of god, you must be clear what you mean by god, otherwise you are just talking about an abstract object of no truth. When there is no truth in the meaning or in the label itself, what are we really talking about? For this, you must be clear. "How can god not exist?" is not a valid question, for it implies that god is only a theory that is not proven, and therefore it cannot possibly be anwered rationally. All answers will be based on a theory, and thus will not correctly answer the question. What do you mean by god? You cannot just say god, for the word god has no meaning in our perceived truth. What we perceive can be the only truth we know. We can rationalize, but no rationalization can lead to the truth of gods existance. I do not know how you would further discuss god then unless you were speaking of something that can be perceived.

 

Apparently "what god is" is not clear to you.

There is truth in belief (you have experienced it every night/day that you believed you would wake up the next morning). There are false beliefs as well.

If you have a testable theory, you can be reasonably certain that it is correct.

It means what we say it means. I generally (try to) go by the dictionary definitions of words so that I can be sure that people will understand me.

God, when capitalized refers to the supreme or ultimate reality (the perfect being).

God.

Exactly. I perceive God. God can be perceived. God reveals God's existence through occurrences of patterns that display intent.

 

There is never truth in belief unless the belief is true now. The future is not true until it is now. Nothing is definite besides what is happening right now. I agree that words are a useful tool in communication, however without that association with its meaning, the word means nothing. We created the meaning through imagination. We can call something god, it is god if we want it to be. Wide acceptance of a belief does not create truth. What is the popular definition of god? The supreme being, the creator of the universe? How are we to perceive something like this? The only way is to associate it with something that we do perceive, and then call that a sign that god exists. This is a belief though, where is the truth in it? It could be true, however it is not a known fact.

 

here is my proof as to why we dont need a god to be here

1. space is infinint
2. time is infininit
3. there are all elements in space.

now by knowing that you now can assume you have forever and a day for the proper elements to come in contact with each other and for evolution to start. you have all the room and time nessisary for such a event to occur. one down side to this is how space got here but at the same time how did god get there? when you answer me that one and not with the words he just is/was/faith answer then you win

 

Yup.

I don't know, why should I? Do they have compelling evidence? If I had been abducted by aliens I would tend to believe it when another person said they had been abducted by aliens. Never happened to me however.

At the same time that these neuroses or psychoses exist in the minds of some who barely experience true reality, there are some that can experience the higher truth of reality (God).

While he is blind. Like I said, when you give the man sight (on the condition he remembers to open his eyes), what you have said to him about the blue sky will begin to make sense.

I was just talking about language usage. I like words. A buffalo is a buffalo. Unless, of course, it is a wolf in a buffalo skin suit. But then it is only a wolf in a buffalo skin suit. Unless, of course, it is a buffalo in a wolf suit in a buffalo skin suit, which is another case altogether.

Nope, the God that exists independant of false beliefs, 214512 people can have different perceptions of the same person as 534152 people can have different perceptions of God. This doesn't mean that God is defined by each individuals beliefs, it just means that each individual perceives God in a different way, and of course, some perceive God more clearly than others.

 

Like everything else. Pretty much gotta except the whole universe on faith, just don't trust people, they are no damn good (thats what my Grandfather used to say).

 

I asked God that one once and God got really sad and said "I don't know".

 

Kharakov, that is quite a statement. You realize how many people will call you a liar, and a heretic for stating that there is something that God does not know? I was once told that when Moses spoke to God, the entity he was speaking with only told Moses he was God because the situation required it, but that it was not actually God. I have only spoken with three other people who have spoken with God, and for the most part, they have been mocked for sharing their experiences. Since I have had dreams that later came true to the most minute detail, I do not dismiss others claims out of hand, no matter how incredible they are.