How can god not exist?

Man would go mad without the belief that a deity of some sort awaits them in their final moments, and the thought of death being just like before they were born would be too much I think.....

 

Any of you guys ever have an apple tree?

We had a few when I was a kid, Macintosh, Granny Smith, and two other types.
It was kinda cool how with very little effort, just some sun, water, and time, and we would end up with the most delicious fruit for everyone to enjoy.

No striving on the part of the tree. No bending of will. No submissive behavior.
All that was needed was nourishment and time and the trees could do none other than bear fruit.


Most people, Christians as well as non-Christians tend to think that by effort and sheer force of will that fruit will be born in their lives.
It doesn't work that way. The tree doesn't "submit" but rather yields to the winds and obstacles as it grows, much as a Christian doesn't "submit" as a slave to a master, but rather yields to the influence of the Spirit and allows fruit to be borne.


That is probably the biggest misconception concerning Christianity that causes strife and a sense of failure for many faithful believers.
No ritual, formula, mantra, potion, idol or any such conditioning will yield the fruit of the Spirit.
Sadly the simplicity of grace, unmerited favor, is lost on most, but it is what Jesus taught/offered.
The human creature has a hard time with the concept of grace. We think that in order to attain to any degree of growth, that it requires hard work and years of effort.
that's not what I read in my Bible.
In my Bible it was pretty much Wham! Bam! Conversion Man!

 

So, where did the idea of doing the will of God come from?


I like what you said about the apple trees, but trees are not prone to fornication and stuff like that. So, I'm not sure what you intended to point out with that.


As far as fornication is concerned, the Bible--new testament--quite clearly condemns the act as being in opposition to the will of God. Of course, this leads to the question of what constitutes fornication. Probably everyone has a different opinion about that. Perhaps that's where discipline comes in.

 

Because of the idealistic OP, the abstract being of the world for experience by the Ego yields towards the transcendental conceptually judged World. In the end we are with the values of the World in a concrete way. The bible said: in the beginning was the (abstract) word; eventually we have life as it is for a thinking Man. :love:

 

You are still making the assumption that a person is being "forced" or "coerced" to act "according to God's will" but failed to understand the meaning behind my analogy.

For a person who has experienced a true conversion as outlined in the New Testament, as long as the desire is there and they consciously move in that direction, the rest is easy and the "fruit of the Spirit" will be manifest, it can do no other.

As I said, given the proper nutrients and care, (desire and direction) then the fruit will manifest with little effort.


I always wonder when I read these discussions or similar, what do you guys think of the supernatural events as outlined in the New Testament which are still being manifested in pretty much the exact same manner today?

Nowhere does it say that those "gifts" stopped. I know there is a school of thought that thinks the whole "put away childish things" and "when that which is perfect is come" to try to say the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. Stupid and just shows their lack of understanding of the Bible and the concept of contextual meaning.

When I read about the events on the day of Pentecost and the absolutely dramatic change in the individuals concerned, Peter being one of the most dramatic alterations of personality, I had to know more.
I have personally experienced and witnessed many of the "miracles" that were performed by the Apostles as recorded in the book of Acts.

I know that this shit still happens and that the thing is almost ALWAYS lacking in these discussions or in personal convictions is the acknowledgement of that POWER!

It is so much easier to get bogged down in semantics and interpretations and doctrinal differences when it really is all sooooooo much simpler than all that.

Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.

THAT is the power I am talking about.
How come nobody here ever wants to tackle that point?

I guess the same reason that every time I have asked for an alternative to our current systems of governing that would still fulfill all the public obligations, the place falls silent.

Logistics are a bitch.

 

No one said anything about being forced or coerced to do the will of God. People willingly make the decision to do the will of God. The forcing comes about as a result of their belief that they must change things about themselves. And where else do they learn about what needs to be changed but in their Bible? I would suggest that the initial desire to not fornicate is not the result of a real desire, but rather a desire to not be held guilty.

Your tree analogy fails because no where during the growth of the tree is it corrupted; it never finds itself in need of a "true" conversion. A fruit tree does not experience the temptation to defile itself.

Supernatural events? First of all, there are no supernatural events. One thing I notice about people who look for the kinds of things that will support thier belief system is that when something out of the ordinary happens, they call it supernatural rather than coming to the logical conclusion that, if it happened, it was natural. You may not understand the dynamics of the scientific principles involved, but calling it holy magic is not reasonable.

And biblical accounts of past events may be your idea of documentation, but it's not mine. You believe that Moses parted the Red Sea. You believe that the sun stood still in the sky for several hours. I haven't seen these kinds of miracles take place lately. Have you? I always wonder why it is that people are given to believe such things, yet when it comes to God doing something like taking all of the Midianites, whom he had found to be an abomination in his sight, and tossing them thirty-seven and a half miles off the shore of the nearest ocean, they're not curious about the fact that he couldn't do it. Instead, their god calls on Moses to do the job the hard way--swords, blood, pain, and lots of suffering. Apparently, God loves a good fight.

 

What biblical edict to do the will of god? Who are my mother and sister and brother, those who do the will of our father who is in heaven. What is the will of a father for his children?

To have every happiness, every success, to know love. I would venture these things are your will as well.

 

This biblical edict: 1 Thessalonians 4:3

One does not need to consult the Bible in order to know that what they want is every happiness, every success, and to know love.

 

Who told you you were naked? Not me. Temptation is the desire to have illusion be real. It is not a conversion but an illumination as the scales fall from your eyes. We suffer not from the loathsome but from a case of mistaken identification. It is not flesh and blood with which we contend, but principalities and powers.

 

You are correct; you did not tell me that I was naked. Now that we've settled that . . .

. . . what principalities and what powers are you referring to?

 

I am in the mood to treat this thoroughly and in so doing will arouse enormous hysterical revulsion no doubt.

But I will say of this other thing first:

Nothing is needed and helpful becomes a matter of timing and desired function.
Wanting and having those things are not the same and there are some slick tricks to achieving a greater synchronicity between what you say you want and what you actually invest yourself in that can be had in investigating the symbolic representations found in the bible.

Now back to addressing what never seems to be addressed philosophically and I think this is so because of the stupefying confusion and doubt about the propriety of sex in general. Certainly society at large is content with the concept of criminal sexuality.

All things are lawful but not all things are helpful.
I would say things are fundamentally substantial and that real substance is fundamentally satisfying.

I take my argument for fundamental satisfaction from the following statement,

give us this day our supersubstansalis, a latin word coined from the aramaic via greek which has been inadequately interpreted as meaning daily bread. What the word means is super substance or the fundamentally satisfying in relation to the statement why worry for what you shall wear or what you shall eat, your father knows you need these things.

Having introduce the term super substance let's add infra circumstance. Further we can think of those terms as synonymous in a sense to degrees of hot and cold as in relation to our temperate metabolism. Super sex liberates or is fundamentally satisfying and infra sex binds or sends you on a perpetually thirsty quest.

The question of appropriateness is one of function. Sex, sexual bimorphism and sexual drive are for procreation. Sex is conceived of as useful for other things for which it is not. For example sex is not useful for finding happiness although you may obviously enjoy sex.

If I appear to leave things hanging here it is to invite question.

 

Sex is for procreation, you say. What else is it for?

Society at large is caught up in a place of perpetual child-like ideas about everything. Can't say the word "shit" on TV because it's indecent. You can show images of extreme violence, from rape to tortrure, but uttering the word "shit" will somehow wreck the world; therefore, it's strictly prohibited. Pull down your pants in public, and you'll be put in a cage for the alleged crime of indecent exposure. Not only that, but your record--life report card--will reflect this indecency for many years to come.

It seems that the evolution of humanity cannot rise above the crotch area. And the evolution of humanity toward reality gets hung up by the societal endorsement of the idea of the magical properties of words like "shit" and fuck."

 

Eating is for nourishment. Is that all it is for?

 

That is it in summation.

Child like ideas are those ideas instilled in us as children. We can extrapolate from there. Very little guidance is offered other than suppression. The mixed message is you can be what you want to be but you can't be that.

 

Yes although eating can be enjoyable.

 

Do you engage in sexual activity exclusively for the purpose of procreation?

 

I regard it that way. I haven't in the past being as confused as anyone. Now I am not what you would call sexually active but I make love all day.

 

Do you believe that others would do well to reserve sexual activity for procreative purposes only?

 

I'll take that as a yes . . .

 

Why send a check in the mail if you are going to pay me in person?
What I have said is in terms of satisfaction, to do a thing that has accord in it's intended purpose is substantially fulfilling, liberating. We find reality resistant in our errant applications, less filling.

On these terms there is super sex that fulfills thirst and infra sex that lends to thirst. Take your pick according to your tolerance for being thirsty.