How can god not exist?

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by nephthys, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I was going through these posts and noticed I hadn't replied to you question. To me, God is a bet on a multi-functional concept that might have objective existence as one of its properties. God, at minimum, is a codeword for ultimate meaning, but (S)he might be more. Following Paul Davies and Freeman Dyson,, I think "God', defined as Intelligent Designer, is a more plausible concept than Superstring to explain the integrated complexity of our universe. But God's objective "existence" isn't necessary for the sense of ultimate meaning I attach to the term. I'm not sure that "intelligence" at the level we're talking about, much resembles human intelligence. It might be more like machine intelligence, or something beyond our comprehension. I don't necessarily believe in a God who answers prayer and watches over and protects us. I have pretty much the same attitude toward Jesus of Nazareth. I'm persuaded by Bart Ehrman that the itinerant Galilean holy man by that name probably existed, but I doubt He had the supernatural powers claimed for Him by Christian tradition. No Matter. The agape principle is divine enough for me. Jesus to me stands for the ideal of unconditional love for everybody, including society's rejects. Everything else is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. So in an operational sense, these are, at minimum, ideas in my head--myths that guide my life and influence my actions. That might not seem like much, but as far as I'm concerned, it ain't chopped liver. If everyone acted "as if" it were true, what would we have? The kingdom of Heaven on earth, as Jesus predicted.
     
  2. Eljah888

    Eljah888 Guest

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    No, we would have just saved people. Heaven is a place, where no pain, no death, and nothing bad exists.
     
  3. Eljah888

    Eljah888 Guest

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    What you need to do, is to provide a * better * explanation for all that exists, than theism does.
     
  4. Eljah888

    Eljah888 Guest

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    Jesus is not only a God of love and forgiveness, BUT , of justice as well.
    God has to condem all unjustice and unrightness, therefore hell.
    But God's love made Jesus pay for the price of sin - which was his death on the cross, so that we, humans, could be forgiven, and receive forgiveness as a gift. The cross is Gods sign of his love. But only, who accepts that free gift, will receive forgiveness of sins. For that, you need to repent, and believe in Jesus as your personal Lord and savior. As for the canaanites, God gave them 400 years to repent -they did not.
     
  5. Indy Hippy

    Indy Hippy Zen & Bearded

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    All things are constantly existing and not existing in this strange universe of ours. To dictate which has more or less of a right to exist simply goes against everything that is, is not, and ever will be
     
  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    That's where we differ. I think heaven is a state of mind. So is hell. Hell is a bad attitude.
     
  7. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Doesn't justice involve proportionality?
     
  8. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    jesus is not a god at all. jesus of nazarith was a human person, whom the god choose to be channelled by, exactly the same as moses, mohammid, and at least 22 others in linear succession at approximately thousand year intervals, going all the way back to so called first man, who was really first religious leader among humans of earth.

    repent of what? repent of refusing to tell myself the same lie as someone else, just because it is what they tell themselves? because someone wrote it down in some book?

    show me one piece of real evidence for such a claim, that doesn't chaise its own tail.
     
  9. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

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    The mind/world problem is a lot like the mind/body problem. Clearly this is the source of satan and the semblance of a God in the world substantial issue. Could satan never be considered similar to the next stage, the alpha and omega of evolution? Mind/world problems boggle the very existence of the nature of man, and that is the juxtaposition for the conclusive purpose of the whole of Nature (the world/soul). The question always remains how man can also seem to be adequately moral upon the "truth onto himself".:love::confused:
     
  10. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Jesus is not only a God of love and forgiveness, BUT , of justice as well.

    You have not shown that this "god" even exists. We therefore have no reason to believe you when you say that you even know this "god's" attributes.

    God has to condem all unjustice and unrightness

    You've not shown that your imaginary friend exists, but now you are even speaking for his supposed intentions and motives.

    But God's love made Jesus pay

    Says who? The bible? You've not shown that this "god" creature even exists, much less shown that there would be any reason for such a creature would need to communicate in such a ridiculously stupidly ineffective way.

    Sorry, but it really is all just make-believe.
     
  11. rak

    rak Senior Member

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    If he killed himself, he would not exist.
     
  12. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    the all of existence is only an idea . to hold it is both
    rational and crazy . this is why imagination may serve
    knowledge , and can by faith be trusted when it is
    created of kindness .

    in feeling the source of imagination - as in the fantastical
    colors of mind - i will acknowledge a mystery feeling of
    intersection as in self+=+otherness , union , not separate
    from god , salvation not required .

    from this viewpoint i am apt to say life is kind . can then
    life is kind become god is kind ? both would be rationally kind
    and crazily kind and because of that word All .

    probably it's good'nuff to just hold all of life
    and with respect . angels would sing about it .
    it's a glory , glory .

    ...is All just make-believe... ? sorrow
     
  13. Driftwood Gypsy

    Driftwood Gypsy Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    what i ask is, why would there be a god, of all the absurd things?!
     
  14. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    why ? so you may feel like a goddess . i've had a couple LSD
    visions when i felt like a god . in one , i lived alone in the sun
    and cared for a planet . this is about prayer as condition of
    existence , not about thingy-ness , and to love like this from
    the center of the sun rather means not really doing any thing
    at all .

    shhh . just exist .

    why don't you say what it feels like , gypsy goddess . is it about
    a perspective of identity ? absurdity seems fine to me .
     
  15. storch

    storch banned

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    God is a distractive alternative to your own will.
     
  16. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Doesn't have to be distractive by definition.
     
  17. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    perhaps then i am merely a wizard . i once did have a walking stick with
    a crystal atop of it , and wherever i'd plant it in the sand the maidens would
    dance for me jangling their bells nicely . pleased and astonished i am .

    miraculous kindness exists .
     
  18. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    doesn't have to anything. from my perspective this is a very silly question.

    one thing can be nonexting just as easily as another and a god, or the god, is no exception.

    we don't HAVE TO pretend to know things that we don't.
    our ego wants us to be able to think we know everything.
    but that's our ego, and we all know, or learn eventually, that our egos can be rather silly.

    now belief, i don't believe a god has to exist in order to do so.
    what i mean is that a god, being a god, could exist without having to have crated anything, or have any of those kinds of reasons for the idea of having to.

    so again, HOW can a god not exist? simple: just as easily as anything else.
     
  19. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

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    I don't exist. Or that person walking on the other side of the street does not exist. There is a trick to that; Sartre claimed that the people of Beauville were not existing, and that was because of their self-centred inventions of the mind defeating Nature of it's role in anything really like a God's creation. Also, we can re-refer our notion of existence to being financially self-sufficient and contributing members of the community. Ironically the Existence of one in the midst of motions of humanity reverses over a judgment now. At work we exist the tedium against self-satsfaction, and the judgment: of the money, by the money, and for the money.:sifone:
     
  20. storch

    storch banned

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    God is a distractive alternative to your own will if you adhere to the biblical edict to do the will of God.
     

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