How can god not exist?

Originally Posted by TheHammerSpeaks
What if it wasn't real, but seeing that hallucination inspires me to give all my worldly posessions to the poor and become a monk, and then a scientist came up to me and proved beyond any doubt that my vision was not real? Would science have succeeded or failed there?

Clearly it would have succeeded. I would qualify my answer with the one point that science does not, to me, prove anything. It is theory. Some of it very well researched and confirmed by many, but still just theory. I have had numerous things occur in my life that science would just balk at. The only explanation that would fit their criteria would be that I am lying, or that these were just very fluky coincidences. Neither answer satisfies me in the least. There is a limit to what science can answer, and the things I have witnessed and been a part of go against all scientific laws.

 

Really? There is no law against describing the universe in a more accurate manner (newtonian--> better way of describing einsteinian--> incomplete so added quantuum mechanics), even if this manner takes into account a God that can change things without following the natural order.

 

yes

 

What about when science gets to the point when it can label something as "of the natural order" or "caused by something other than the natural order"? Than science will be able to point to beings that influence our universe from the 'outside'.

 

get inn the fucken xxi century. Science already DO that.

 

umm. hello foot.

 

lol

Science already DO that?

do what?

 

Which manner is this you speak of?

 

Uhh, the manner that takes into account a God that can influence things outside of the 'natural order' of the universe. Say, all the sudden, a bunch of bubbles appeared all over the world with no 'natural' explanation for their existence.

 

No. It wasn't my most intelligent post, but we all have our days. I didn't miss the point. I responded in an unexpected way.

*Fear comes with the christian religion, you can not deny this.

*Truth is more important than lies, if it takes a lie to make you a better person.

 

Well, it was unexpected, I'll give you that.

I won't deny it, but that doesn't make Christianity bad or wrong. In fact, fear can be a good thing, such as the fear experienced when one realises that he is in control of his own destiny. My reasons for being a Christian have nothing to do with the salvation of my soul. I'm much more concerned about this life than the next.

I completely disagree with that. And I don't see how you can make that judgement since you'd have to step outside of truth, falsehood, and morality to view the situation objectively.

 

One step at a time. You say you're not really concerned about the afterlife (if there is one--nobody really knows for sure, I dont care who you are) and you have assumed your limitations in this life from what your religion and common knowledge tell you. What are your reasons for being a christian? I think I can feel what you're about to say.

 

Religion doesn't create limitations, it opens up possibilities. No, it does more than make absurdities possibilities; it makes them realities. Religion is most often contrary to common knowledge because it means believing in things which just seem impossible like a virgin birth, a being who is fully man and fully God, and, above all, God dying for the sake of man. Faith means constant self-overcoming in that you have to overcome crises of faith in order to make your faith stronger. In that way, faith makes you a stronger person because you can be confident in your convictions even when most people are against you. Faith makes me a better person. That's why I believe in God.

 

Kharakov

Which 'god' is that?

Occam conceeds that a god may exist...
But you seem to know when it will take a crap.

bubbles? really nice stuff

There are many events recorded that have no natural explanation...
However...How do these events relate to god?

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indestinguishable from magic.
An unexpalined phenomena is JUST as likely to be an event of natural
process [1st]
A result of technology [2nd]
And an act of god [3rd]

Once one of these event occurs.
And is shown not to be a natural event we know nothing of
And is shown not to be a result of technology

THEN it may be an act of god

Process and method my friend
Occams razor
The simplest explanation is most likely to be....

Occam

 

Hammer

You say you are pretty sure WisperingWoods is an idiot.

This is an example of pure ego...
Of the thing we are supposed to leave behind when we gain understanding and wisdom.
You show an excellent example of prejudice and bigotry.

May occam point you out to others as such an example?

Occam

 

Hammer

Really..
Religion does not create limmitations...
Religion open up possibillities?

How so..? Organised religion is dogma...
It teaches what the book says is truth..
And if we dont believe it...we are tortured forever..
Nice options.

Well you can believe that..and occams method supports your belief..
The same method you will send to hell..

Faith makes you strong? Yes.. if you believe it is fact.
But how do you show it is fact..
You cannot.
Understanding makes occam strong..
It is based in reason/logic. Which is our human interpretation of reality..

Occam can stand by his propositions. He has confidence in his method
Why
Because it works
Because he proposes from FACT.
That which can BE SHOWN TO ANY TO BE EXISTANT.
Occam FEARS NO QUESTIONS..

Your statement
"even when most people are against you"

Reveals the weakness in your position...

You fear others questions...why...?
Is it because you dont know why you believe what you do...
You just believe it. Faith

Occam

 

the correct one. occam's razor

That is the first time I have noticed you refer to the adage itself. It is so very useful.
magic.
I have seen David Copperfield live three times, and came away with the same feeling about high technology. Whether he employed magic, or technology, it was just as amazing either way.

 

Blackguard

Occams razor is a method..The principle of parsimony.
No more...
Occam calls himself TheRazorOfOccam because his method centers on this principle...
William of Ockham was not even the sole author of the principle...
It has been in human minds forever..

Experience has shown,, that the simplest answer to a problem is most likely the correct one.
Any who wish a perspective on this just need to type in 'occams razor'
on google. And pick the first listed link.
He would quote directly from the page but is using firefox and just cant get the SOB to copy/paste into a post...[any help on this?]

Yes...what would 1st century man say to a modern fellow who lifted of in a jetpack. Or turned on a simple laser presentation pointer...
Magic.

So many say reason is not the way...
But we chose it as the way ..long ago.
Now reason/technology is the only way...
to give it up would kill billions.

So if we all want to live..We must use that technology [rationally] to get us out of the hole that egotistical use of technology has dug.
For our world is the result of ego...using reason to get what it wants.
Hair die, cars , power, telephones, fashion , luxury, fast travel, cleaning products, contraceptives, insurance, and especially..toilet paper.

All we have to do..is do it.
With some reason and planning...
Not one watt of power needs to be generated on earth.
Not one mine needs to be dug.
No more industrial pollution..of any kind...

All we have to do is spend the 1.5 trillion US a year the world spends on defence...
In getting those things..which exist in ABUNDANCE...beyond earth.
So simple....
We can turn WAR..into prosperity and peace... And a stable future for our race.

Occams razor

All we have to do..is DO it. [it is well within our technology]

Occam

 

I am sure you are right that the idea predates Wickam by millenia...
It is very important, and true, in my view.

H. L. Mencken wrote "For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong."

I agree about the 1st Century man and jetpack. How about showing Da Vinci a bic lighter? Or a cell phone? Even today, like I said earlier, David Copperfields illusions are so inexplicable to me, it matters not whether it is magic or technology.

I will die of shock if we do as you postulate as being a possibility, which is to halt our death spiral in time to save our present civilization from a very serious crash.

 

God Is The Sun.