God Does Not Exist (Strong Atheism)

I get that, but you should find better ways of expressing it. I'm no religion fan boy, but calling Christianity a fashion trend just sounds historically ignorant. I get that you're going for the "big-picture" kind of thing but you really have to ignore a hell of a lot to conceptualize religion as a fad. Assuming you see history as causal that is. In any case I don't think it really serves your purpose unless your purpose is just to be caustic.

Also "super new on any time scale that matters" isn't accurate either. Christianity is around 2000 years old. Recorded history is what, 5000? I wouldn't call that insignificant.

Ultimately it's all just semantics that don't really mean anything. I suppose the only reason I bothered to comment is because I expect better from you.

 

My two bits worth:
Years ago when my wife and I were trying to become better christians, I got into seriously reading the bible and researching what it said. That lead me to a lot of discussions with some rabbis, since the christian bible is based on the Hebrew bible. During one of those conversations, one rabbi who I felt had an open mind and always questioned his own beliefs told me that he did, in fact question his beliefs all the time, that it was a commandment to the Hebrews to question what their writings told them their god and their history has said, even to the very existence of that god. He said the reasoning for this was to ensure a proper understanding of what they had been told to believe in, and that it was up to each individual to ascertain for themselves whether or not a god even existed.
I asked where I could find facts that I could use to determine this for myself. The answer was that all of what was known about this god was found in the Hebrew writings, and that there was no actual, physical proof, just the supposed "witnesses" in historical times (as during the Exodus) that supposedly passed on what they had seen from generation to generation. Most of that was verbal until someone started writing it down, and so would have to be suspect as to the validity of what was said.
The long and short of it was that there is no actual proof for the existence of any god, just hearsay evidence, which can only be believed if one chooses to believe. So I became an atheist. After a few years of mulling over the issue of where and how, then, did we come to be, the thought entered my mind that there was no proof for the non-existence of some sort of god either, and that I should withhold judgement on that issue until facts proved otherwise. I felt at the time that this was a logical conclusion to the issue. That there is no proof for, or against some sort of creator entity that created the entire Universe. So I dropped the atheist idea and have been searching for answers ever since.
I have some ideas about how that happened, but no real facts.
If we apply some logic and reason to an issue in the absence of facts, we could at least eliminate the contentious disharmony that occurs between people who have differing views. In this case, there is no reason for issues between those who believe and those who do not, it would be better to say "We don't know for sure, let's work together to figure it out"

 

The stupid rapture at the end of the Bible is not to be believed in. Time just presents itself to the goal of individuals who overcome anonymity.

 

What do you mean? Do you mean that I sound jaded? I definitely am when my mood is in the dumps

I was going for caustic. I want to grab religion personified by the throat, rip out its eyes and rupture its spleen. As it lies on the ground bloodied, blind and painfully dying, I would watch every moment with unbridled joy and feel the freedom of the mind manifest all around. I kind of have a thing against religion. A lot of people do Anger? Sure, nothing to be ashamed of there. I'm furious some days, absolutely furious about what I see around me. From the benignly ignorant and backwards to the downright sadistic and manipulative. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong though, maybe if religion magically disappeared tomorrow, humans would use some other means to exercise this same stupidity. South Park handled this wonderfully, where they showed a future without religion, torn apart by war between two opposing factions of scientific atheists over the choice in naming themselves.

 

Well, that's pretty stupid. And ironically illogical.
Adieu.

 

To do, or not to Do; that is the question.

 

Dawkins said it first. But I think he's weong, because "atheist" has always meant denial of all gods.

 

Doing for the strong atheist is about (Dawkins is actually a softy here) the incapacity to know each other's sin tool. On the other hand we couldn't be utter caprice (Gide) if we tried. Someone has to arrange that in an immoral wedding.

 

i don't see there as being absurd the possibility or even likelihood of things we know nothing about.
what is absurd is expecting anything to closely resemble the claims of major beliefs like christianity.

i just don't think anything has to exist in order to do so.
probably nothing wrong with not being interested in the topic though.
for all anyone knows, whatever god or gods there might be, might not be interested in it either.

 

God, the mental concept, is the source of confusion because it is trying to use words to describe something beyond words. What is God was the consciousness behind all thought, emotion, mental chatter and physical form.

What if the experience of bliss during a deep meditation is the experience of "God"

God needn't have a name or be associated with a religion. Maybe we can get rid of the word God altogether and say Consciousness or The Cosmos or the Higher Self which is inseparable from all existence.

 

Did you know the rest of it: that you still need to be moral; OR is the wish for freedom to give man a sign has to absolve the God concept of making sense for the Sunday worshipper.

I mean, that the depth of knowing how to un-involve sham negativity may simply have to be concerned with the ignoring of one another when it needs be.

 

@ Anaximenes
Simply ignoring negative people is a great start, something I'm still working on.

Sure we can do away with the concept of "God" altogether and be perfectly moral but I believe that in order to truly make the right moral actions it has to come from a place beyond the ego, beyond the thinking, analyzing mind.

I believe you can be moral without God but I don't believe the rational mind to be enough to get us there Sometimes the "road to hell" as they say is paved with good intentions.

For this reason I believe transcendence is very important. There is a realm beyond thought, beyond perception where only present awareness remains and I believe it is only from that place that the right action arises.

We don't have to involve God in this. I'd prefer to say the intelligence of the universe works through you when you surrender to the present moment. Some people would call this an experience of God. I don't think the term is needed as it only crates more confusion.

What I'm trying to say is its not about believing in a man in the sky but believing in a higher state of consciousness which each of us can attain through meditation and learning to surrender the mind to get in touch with those higher realms of consciousness.

I have nothing against atheism except for the belief that many Atheists have that they can figure it all out themselves using the mind and philosophizing.

 

We're stuck with the rational mind. We go to far with it. The rational mind gets it's strength from cruel feelings about nationalism for instance, and about what the Spirit is. Are you trying to suggest that we can overcome the reasonings for the day-to-day presence of the world. Honesty of the world of arrational trust and consistency is for interests sake consciounable for Iraq to do business with the western world again without the old threats and inuendoes. Z---------- if there is justice in the world; that's not cruel, eh?

 

@ Anaximenes

I'm not completely sure I understand what you're getting at. My point, to make it brief, is that the rational mind gets in the way of being present and aware. The rational mind does what it thinks is right but it is often wrong.

I'm not saying the rational mind is bad I'm just saying gets in the way of true moral action which comes more naturally when we are in touch with the present moment instead of lost in our thoughts.

 

True action would thus be some theatrical action. I or someone else being the self he is looked at Being. However more than being-looked-at the person is at-choosing the true-action by the defining of the prescribed word.

 

No one is.

 

Not in general! But yeah in this thread we could detect that you had some antitheistic tendencies before you said you just realized you had them. It was suprising to see them for me too because I never noticed them before in you.

Now that is one thing that's clear.

 

That is a very popular straw man of strong atheism. Absolutely all strong atheism is is the belief that there are no gods. It does not claim that it is absolutely certain that there are no gods. Weak atheism is about a lack of belief; strong atheism is about having a belief. That's it. And as someone who has been in the atheist community for a while, I have come across this position time and time again. Christians, New-Agers, Muslims, Buddhists, and even ill-informed atheists have made this claim to me before. If you want to know what someone's position is, ask someone who holds to it.

So, hi. I am Riley. I am strong atheist. I do not believe in any gods, but I make no claims to know with certainty that there are no gods.

Wikipedia has a decent article about strong atheism (AKA positive atheism or hard atheism).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

 

Hi Riley. You call that strong? lol I'm an atheist that knows with certainty that there are lots of gods, all human, and none of them living beings. :-D

 

How can you be human and not alive?