Fear of Rebirth.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by MeAgain, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. KathyL

    KathyL Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    What the heck has income got to do with anything? Rebirth depends on how you led your life, not on how much money you made. You can't buy a good rebirth.

    If you are worried that you will have a poor rebirth, it is time to start living well. That means following the Eightfold Path, the Six Paramitas, the Golden Rule, or whatever code of ethical conduct that you subscribe to. Or just practise compassion. That is how you earn a good rebirth.
     
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  2. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    Let's say you get to choose your rebirth. You could either be the tapeworm girl, or you could have rebirth in a paradise.

    If you choose rebirth in paradise, a more virtuous and worthy being will be forced to take rebirth as the tapeworm girl. Also, whatever pleasure you get from being in paradise, an equivalent amount of suffering, times 1,000,000 will have to suffered by sentient beings as a whole.

    If you choose rebirth as the tapeworm girl, the more virtuous and worthy being will be reborn in paradise. Also, whatever suffering you endure as the tapeworm girl, an equivalent benefit, times 1,000,000 will be experienced by sentient beings as a whole.

    Which rebirth would you choose?
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yeah, but we're all the same being.
     
  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So, what is a person?
     
  5. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    Are we? I don't know.

    You haven't answered my question. You have a choice of the two rebirths. Which one do you choose?
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Income has to do with how well you can feed, clothe, and find adequate shelter to keep your body, and the bodies of those who depend on you, alive and healthy.
    A healthy body leads to a healthy mind which leads to healthy spiritual development.
    Unfortunately due to income disparities many people in the world can't manage to meet those simple needs.
    It's a simple fact that many people are born in this world into horrendous situations.

    If we take a Bodhisattva vow we'll delay our own reward for the benefit of others.
     
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Your question presumes we have a choice. I'm not ready to admit that.
    Second you presume there's something called paradise that is separate from the rest of existence. I'm not ready to admit that.
    Third you assume that a higher birth results in someone having to take a lower birth. I'm not ready to admit that.
    Fourth you assume something called pleasure and suffering exist outside of the human condition, as you equate paradise with pleasure. I'm not ready to admit that.
    Fifth you assume the human condition is not common to us all. I believe that we are consciousness itself, and consciousness is the very fabric of reality.
    An enlightened being is the tape worm girl just as the tapeworm girl is the enlightened being.

    To answer your question with a question, who would there be to choose?
     
  8. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    I'm not saying you literally will either be reborn into paradise or will be reborn as the tapeworm girl, that you literally have a choice, etc.

    I don't know that there really is karma, or enlightenment, or rebirth. I'm just posing a hypothetical question.

    So if the conditions that I described were true, which would you choose?
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Assuming your hypothetical were to be true and all my points meaningless and assuming that I have empathy for other human beings I would be an idiot to choose my well being over the well being of others.

    So what does this hypothetical prove?
    It's a worthless question.
     
  10. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    That comes close to answering the hypothetical question, but not quite.
    You said "assuming that I have empathy for other human beings I would be an idiot to choose my well being over the well being of others", but not specifically, "I would choose to be the tapeworm girl".

    Just so there is no ambiguity, I would like to see you state "I would choose to be the tapeworm girl", if that's what you mean to say.

    You could in principle be saying that you don't have empathy, or would prefer a foolish choice even if you did.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  11. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    This seems to me to be one of the more valuable discussions I've had on HF.

    Maybe the question just frightens you?
     
  12. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Would you be willing to expand on that a little?
     
  13. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    So what you're saying is that higher income = healthy spiritual development.
     
  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Okay, I would choose to be the tapeworm girl.
     
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  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Nah. I just don't see any point to it.

    I do encourage this kind of thought but I'm under no obligation to agree with it.
    Let me ask you, who would you choose to be the rich guy or the poor girl?
     
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Others have expressed it better than me:
     
  17. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    I don't get it. I guess it's beyond me.
     
  18. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    Then my advice is to try to live the rest of your life in a way that consistent with your own beliefs about what is the right way to live. When your life ends, there is no need to fear being reborn as the tapeworm girl, as long as having that rebirth is most fitting, and is what is best for all beings as a whole.

    So maybe when the moment of death is upon you, it's best just to wish for the most fitting and beneficial outcome, and to embrace whatever comes. That's my opinion.

    If there really is karma and rebirth, why would you not be taken to the most fitting and beneficial place?

    In my hypothetical scenario, I would choose to be the tapeworm girl too :)
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'm saying that a healthy body is more conducive to spiritual growth than an unhealthy one as the individual doesn't spend time worrying about his or her health, where the next meal is coming from, shelter, etc.

    This doesn't mean you have to be rich to become more spiritually developed but if your basic needs are met it's generally easier to work on your mind.
    That being said many take vows of poverty.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    If I get time I'll start a separate thread.
     
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