Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

No not an afterlife, I think a way to understand it in the scope of our lives is like for an organism like us, is that the deceased body still provides a source of energy which can provide accessible energy for scavengers, worms, micro-organisms, plants, etc.

Cows become burger, pigs become ham kind of thing, carrots become food. All sources of energy.

With that said, I believe there was a physicist who took the estimated space of the known universe and estimated the amount of particles and suggested mathatically at least that you could potentially be reincarnate again. However, the time this would take would be many, many times longer than the current age of the universe.

 

Thsre is continuity in the novel expressions of matter. We are matter now informed of our estate and that is that we are in fact real, we belong And as matter we have had matterial presence since the begining.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEebx72-qs

 

So we can agree then that Consciousness is non-physical? And so we can also agree that the entire Universe isn't simply composed of the physical?

 

And in regards to the "Science can't explain the afterlife" comment...the only reason I said it is because it was in response to somebody else saying "there's a Scientific explanation for everything"

 

But see, that's in the realm of the flying spaghetti monster argument. Afterlife is just a word, there's not one single shred of observational data concerning afterlife to even warrant scientific consideration, let alone explanation.

"Science can't explain the afterlife" is a meaningless statement.

 

Well it can't. And people are trying to say that Science can explain all things and what happens after this life is the biggest mystery OF this life.

 

given an infinite amount of time a quantum recurrence of every possible quantum state is inevitable. i think the minimum amount of time it would take for this to occur is something like 10^10^10^10^220 ... much bigger than a googel, not quite a googelplex i don't think. a googel is a truly huge number

 

I think consciousness is a byproduct of the physical.

 

This seems to be obvious, and any scientist you asked would agree with you. It does not appear that consciousness has mass, or energy, or any traditional properties of phenomena.

Keep in mind this may be a limitation of technology, and maybe in 200 years we will have found some "values" for consciousness. This is an empirical statement you are making, therefore it can be true or false, and the evidence is out there.

Also keep in mind that saying "conciousness is neither matter nor energy" is not the same thing as finding out that there is such a thing as a soul. All this does is add a third set to our previous two set division of the universe. A division which may not be entirely well thought out; for example, what is Gravity? It isn't matter, and it's also not electromagnetic energy. It's a third thing, we call it a "force". You see how our concepts and preconceptions can determine how well we ask and answer questions?

But you don't know that there is a thing "after" your life in the way you are imagining. There could just as well not be; it could be nothingness, just like before you were born. So to say "science can't explain the afterlife" is like saying "science can't explain circle-square unicorns". Well, if there is no such thing as circle-square unicorns, there is no failure. You are assuming that there is an afterlife, and that science cannot explain it, and that this means science is somehow failing. Notice these are, all three, assumptions. Perhaps there IS an afterlife, and perhaps science CAN explain it. Why not?

 

But you're also assuming that it was nothingness before you were born. You can't really know.

I'm not assuming anything I am simply responding to the statement that "there is a Scientific explanation for everything". Clearly there isn't at least at this point.

A non-personal continuation after you die is just as much of an assumption as a personal continuation.

You're also assuming that I'm imagining how it will be after I die. I'm not.

And you're also assuming that I am making a statement about the soul regarding Consciousness not having any physical properties when I'm actually making more of a statement about Magick. Magick is about coming into contact with non-physical forces via your consciousness and having an effect on reality via ritual and other means. Consciousness is the key. The realization of Fractals is another key. You tap into your microcosm in order to get a response from the Macrocosm as they are one and the same.

The Subtle Body would be something else that's non-physical.

 

Do you think this notion still holds in the multiverse theory where new universes are born out of extant universes?

I would presume no because you would constantly have different starting points in time and maybe composition of particles. Even if the composition of particles were the same, I think the universe would express variations, kind of like identical twins.

Perhaps the scope of a quantum reoccurence is simply too great for me to fathom.

 

And I will still make the argument...I will even be bold enough to say mark my words...that it will be the Scientific verification of Kundalini that will give new insights into what Consciousness is. This will be the 'technology' that will be discovered at some point...in the post-2012 era.

 

i would assume eventually you would come across different versions with slight differences, and then some truly strange things that are nothing like anything we know at all, and then after a very very very long time ( that was 10^10^10^220 years btw, but a paper i read stated that since that number is so truly enormous, it doesn't make much difference whether it was seconds, years, millennia, or even planck times since it would only add or substract a relative few zeroes to that number) you would eventually find these same things again, over and over again, though the probabilty of finding a variation would be much greater than the exact same states, but in an INFINITE amount of time (or, if the universe is infinite, possibly after traveling a distance approaching infinity) you would eventually come across say, maybe even some strange recurrances such as yourself, but some time in the past or something and you could observer yourself ... observing yourself and i would imagine that there could even be some kind of infinite recursion of events somehow causally connected in some ways possibly!! if such a scenario could occur, i'm not quite sure what that would really mean about the nature of reality?

 

I will also say something regarding our earlier talks on Music...and how music "rides on the back of Science". A primitive human hitting two rocks together could be called Science, sure. But it's only from a Scientific emphasis that one would say this. From a musical point of view, this would simply be seen as the birth of Music. You could also look at the very same phenomena from and Infinite amount of more points of view.

This is what I mean when I say that Science assumes its explanations to be THE explanation. I'm not denying the legitimacy of their explanations. But I'm also not about to call it THE explanation to anything at all.

If you wanted to, you could also try to say that Ritual is Science. From a Scientists' point of view, EVERYTHING is Science. From a Shaman's point of view, the ones actually partaking and directing a ritual, it wouldn't necessarily matter how Science broke it down and fit it into its model of the Universe. That is unless the Shaman also took an interest in Science.

I would argue that music has its roots much more in Ritual than in Science. Of course, a Science-oriented person will attempt to explain why it's Science, but again, this isn't THE explanation. It's one explanation.

 

Interesting discussion regarding consciousness:

Sam Harris: The Self is an Illusion: http://youtu.be/fajfkO_X0l0

 

"We are inevitably going to have to rely on people's subjective reports"...getting one step closer to Magick. Magick is all about the subjective Will and Intention (among other things) of one's Consciousness.


"Magic is the Science of the Future" -Colin Wilson

 

I guess my only response to your comments on Magick would be "show me". It seems no one on earth can do magick, or no one wants to talk about it openly. If you choose to invest yourself in that kind of thing, that's your call.

 

Must be something happening on the quantum level because infinite time would presume infinite space therefore no repetition of self.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQT6FWOmkOU

this video is like an exact carbon copy of that video you posted, guerillabedlam

The merging of Science and Spirituality...post-2012