Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

it is not that you dont uderstand what I said but that what I said contends with your beliefs. I have news for you this information challenges my previous beliefs as well but that doesnt stand in my way for learning new things. Belief is a place marker for something yet to be decided. Not a basis for further reasoning.

 

Metaphysics is simply the study of the essential nature of the material.

 

Second may be to realize that these experiences can be obtained from natural sources such as psilocybin mushrooms, mescaline containing cacti, DMT containing plants, etc.

So unless want to include nature as the pusher, your argument is weak and exemplifies a culturally indoctrinated view, which taking psychedelics often help to dissolve.

 

No, I'd include the natural sources as well. My perceptions may be "culturally induced", and I have no doubt that taking psychedelics might dissolve them. But the question remains: how do you know the experiences are really insights or "esoteric wisdom"? The question could be thrown back at me, how do I know they aren't, or how do I know my "culturally induced" perceptions aren't delusional--and I don't. But I'm dubious that wisdom can be produced by ingesting a substance. Ordinarily, such substances are described as "mind altering" so I'm wondering how a person can be confident that their mind has been altered in the direction of real insight, as opposed to having delusions of grandeur.

 

for one unless you have had the mushroom experience it is by definition esoteric knowledge as knowledge is being shared and learning is becoming familiar with. You can tell on the basis of probative sampling.

 

This in itself is wisdom. It boils down to whether you wanna take the jump or not is all.

I'd say regarding delusions of grandeur, that's it's quite the opposite of grandeur. Delusion of equality quite possibly, coupled with the insatiable desire to shake people out of what I perceive as "justified ignorance", yes.

 

At it's basis, The psychedelic experience helps reveal knowledge of one's humanness in the experiential moment. Somewhat similar to sex, you can be told what the experience is like but actually having the experience is necessary to truly manifest your knowledge of it.

Many of the ideas which come about from psychedelics, such as displayed in this thread, are in a sense secondary. There is some variation in how psychedelics effect the mind, but I often refer to how I experience it as a "fracturing of thought." What I mean by this, is that the senses seem to get overwhelmed to such a degree, that the mind seems to be displaced from a homeostatic processing of reality. So it's possible to have fanciful delusions of grandeur as well as unwaivering skepticism juxtaposed all within a half hour. Often when one tries to integrate all these impressions, you get some gems which shows some revealed knowledge but you may get some fluff too, still the dynamics the mind take on is what is most revealing.


It probably takes certain types of people to appreciate the experience. The psychedelic experience can be trivialized just as sexual experience can be trivialized. However, I don't feel buying these drugs necessarily diminshes their benefits or authenticity. To me that's like saying buying water diminishes it's benefits.

 

For myself I have great motivation to be certain of things do to my brutal childhood. I am the worlds hardest guy to convince or a least no one feels stronger about it.

 

There is a difference in sensation between gradeur and this grandiose, for example the redwoods imart the experince of grandeur,the guy that wants to put up a hot dog stand there is influened by the grandiose.

 

No actually I literally just read the post multiple times and didn't comprehend what you were saying

 

spell out for me what you dont understand.

 

The entire post is what i'm looking to be spelled out. what does "so no on astrology" mean? And me choking over this? And pussying out over some information? or my "fear" of the scientific community. What are you talking about??

 

I don't see it as a mistake to use that term in the context that it's being used. The message is communicated quite fine by using it.

It's the mainstream Scientists and the money that's running the Science show, so I don't see a problem with using that term. If the mainstream ones are the ones doing shitty things, then there's an overall problem.

In the same way, there are plenty of genuine Christian people in the world...but I feel safe to say that Christianity overall has become bloated bullshit.

 

oh I see different post, im talking about dennis mckena. The only words he wrote to me were no to astrology. Then when I told him the information I provided him was but a brief synopsis and to look at this thread and he responded that there were five conversations going on and I replied then just read my entries or better yet I will come see you because this in formation is best trasmited orally to preserve integrity or he could come see me I gave him my address and told him to use gps. Haven't heard from him since.

 

whatevs...still pretty epic that he even viewed this thread. You probably shouldn't have given him your address. Just my opinion. May have semi weirded him out?

Anyone including Dennis McKenna is free to not believe in Astrology.

 

i agree with his perrogative I just think in this case his prejudice may prevent him from reflecting on these things with his potetially sound ability to reason. To me it is a familly matter that he be included. So if he is skeased out by my giving him my address then he needs therapy.

 

I do think it would help if he wefe bumped by multiple members of this group,his insights could be valuable to us.

 

It refers to energy in the sense of thermal or electromagnetic. Physical energy. consciousness is not physical, therefore the law does not apply to it. When a human dies, the biological heat of their organism is not destroyed, it radiates slowly out into the environment and reaches an equilibrium with its surroundings.

Starting at foundational observations, if we do not eat substances such as sugars, fats, proteins, minerals and vitamins, then we do not have any brain activity whatsoever. So right from the get go we have a profoundly indisputable basis for the ingestion of substances to arrive at meaningful and real goals. When we get more focused on psychedelic substances, the truth is that many of the insights ARE rubbish, and there is a finesse to having a psychedelic experience and not becoming focused on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. Many of the "illusions of grandeur" types of psychedelic insights are only "crazy" when compared to consensus reality however; if we took that same "crazy" person and put them into a different society in a different era, their "craziness" might be deemed the highest wisdom in the land. So also understand that your basis for judging what is insight and what is madness is extremely relative, across time, space, and being. Finally, the way we know that our own personal insights have merit, is by testing them scientifically, poetically, whatever. Knowledge is a tool, if I learn that I am God, and this causes me to run through the streets naked, this is perhaps a misuse of the tool (according to my society which prohibits naked running through streets on puritan grounds). Perhaps a better use of "I am God" is to feel sublime, informed, and fulfilled. This comes down to personality as well; one person may use the atomic theory to delve into the structure of matter, another person will create a bomb with which to command respect in geopolitical affairs.

 

I am not sure the bomb would build respect....only fear.....

 

the theory is that the fear of nhialation is reasonable deterent. Problem is people by and large are not reasonable. So the theory is weakly contrived to begin with.