Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

Yes, which I'm not denying. But as the McKenna quote already points out, Science takes on this attitude of being the root of art.

Were ancient tribes using Science or were they using Ritual? The answer to that question is obvious. Science is used for the purpose of doing specific things WITH music. But it is not the actual source OF music itself. Music is born from the imagination and no other place. The human uses Science to express its music but it's not the Science that originated the music.

 

Yep, science facilitating expression.

If you were really smart you would have said the human voice, singing. Too late ♪

 

So you're literally equating Science with God then. You do realize that right? And realize that's the point I've been making the whole time regarding the modern Scientific Dogma? Why not just say God facilitated its expression? What's the difference?

 

I never said it was.

 

The fret scale on a guitar was developed by Pythagoras, so both of you are right and wrong... Pythagoras was not a scientist although he was a mathematician, and tunings are ancient, but not quite as ancient as some other people would imagine.


@ Cat... You want to do your own thing, go fretless... I guarantee you will switch back to frets pronto.

 

the question is then chinacat are you going to adopy the same position as the scientis?

 

Whats god? I don't use that word, what does it mean?

 

He was as much a scientist as anyone in those days. Mathematics is not science?

 

There are Egyptian scales and I'm sure plenty of other ancient scales.

 

LOL

 

Here's the best way to put this. Music IS Science. But Science ISN'T Music. Music is independent of Science.

The whole point of the McKenna quote is to say that Science alone isn't the explanation of all things, which is Scientist's version of what God is.

Music IS Science because you can Scientifically describe anything musically but that doesn't mean that Science is the source of Music. Plain and simple. In that sense, Science ISN'T Music.

 

So? we are not talking about a scale, we are talking about a tuning system.

 

These would sound very out of tune to you... Even the much more modern Baroque tuning would sound out of tune to you.

 

flip-flopper

 

This^^^ and if you tried to play an Egyptian scale or historically correct baroque on your equal tempered instrument it would sound wrong.

 

No offence because we were all involved here but this thread has turned into a mess...

 

nothing is wasted are you findung offense in the effort to communicate?

 

What would our freind dennis think. If it is a mess we dont make it easy for him, he probably doesnt have my degree of practiced pTience with the nonsense.

 

It's not such a mess...I think dope will agree its all part of whats transpiring naturally, it's all relevant to the topic. The equal tempered system is esoteric knowledge to Cat.
It really is quite magical if you think about it. We are in it's grips. We can't just change our ears and minds to apprehend musical intervals differently. Sometimes I think I can hear the magic in the music of Indonesian gamelan, but it's fleeting. My ear is always trying to assemble the music in the manner of our cultural and historical conditioning. I have lamented this fact many times but I have come to terms with it. We live and perceive within a cultural milieu, nothing illustrates that more than how we perceive musical intervals, as they function in the music of our times.

 

I dont know what the music of gamelon is