Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

Okay. The ritual is not a specific thing outside you, it is a focal point for you concentration. It is your concentration that informs you. Think on each of these words as it is an esoteric spelling.
In case you were wondering an esoteric spelling is a metaphor. We say esoteric spelling in this domain to make it sexy or appear attractive to the audience in question.

 

Right because the tool becomes a use for Symbolism and its effect on internal subconscious archetypes. So you give something symbolic meaning and since to the Hermetic there is no separation between internal and external, your focus onto the talisman charges it with whatever your intent is, and then releases it. Sounds like fantasy unless you recognize how the internal and external worlds are linked and inseparable.

 

I would say I'm still in the process of discovery and that Metaphysics and Music is part of it, but not limited to it.

thedope you are farther ahead than me. So I don't know how to decode your phrases quite yet.

 

This he has expressed he doesn't want by definition. A profound plea. I don't want to have to account for myself. It feels like being asked to pre-form. Talk about information we share. We might say what are your views on a persons true purpose. His current intentions are obvious.

 

I wouldn't say Magick is limited to only to finding your true will...I would say Magick is Ceremony and Ritual. It was Crowley who employed the True Will part. I am a fan of that because why practice Magick at all unless it aspires to your highest internal spiritual calling in the first place?

 

Don't be discouraged maybe even set it aside for awhile. After reflecting on these proceedings you may gain additional insight as to your future accomplishments. I am not ahead of you I am with you where you are. I am older, I have more experience and on this basis I have something meaningful to say about our common experience. The teacher and the student are equally yoked. Common understanding is sharing thoughts. I am not to be revered in any fashion. That means you do not look for my approval. You are the proof of what I say. But whatever you share of your understanding being understanding is helpful to me.

 

Understand the mind is naturally abstract all words are symbols of conditions

 

Fast definition that accounts for every variety, meaning you don't have to sort through the particulars contained therein but account for the definition.

The discovery of anything is effort toward a desired aim.

The will can be deduced from here as what occurs

What will be done is done

 

Yeah so you're saying that it's all essentially about concentration, that all words and anything is really a symbol, or magickal tool, and you can get the results of the desired aim through effort.

Which somebody could argue that you don't need magick for all of those things, and therefore magick isn't real. Or you could just as easily argue that magick is real, and is a certain style of approach, mixing will and ceremony is essentially what magick is. Or you could say that everything is magick and it's being practiced unconsciously all the time by people.

Nobody is saying you NEED magick but do you NEED science either? Science by its classic definition didn't even exist for the first 1600 years of modern history.

 

I think that personally my interest in Metaphysics birthed itself from the fact that I grew up in a Catholic family with members who insist to me that my delvings into anything of this nature is pure evil, and yet I know so many people who are more like Writer that see it all as bullshit...this ALL reflects what actually went down in history and how we got to where we are today regarding both Science and Religion's views on Magic. But just because something is from the past doesn't mean that it has lost its legitimacy. Shamanism is one of the oldest if not the oldest practices there are and is another thing that I feel has much legitimacy to it.

But some strange alchemy occurred within when I see one whole group of people insisting that this is all evil and another group of people insisting that it's all bullshit. "Well what's really going on here?" is what came from within out of seeing the opposing paradigms upon it from the outside world.

 

You can argue perspectives till the cows come home and go back out again. If the truth fits wear it. The problem in this instance is once you put your hand to the plow you can't turn back, If you cast doubt on the correct determination it is though you never had it in the first place. It is like sticking your hand on a burner, discovering it is hot and then deciding to put your hand back on it.

I have talked about the difference between miraculous nature and magic and now I'll talk about the difference between miraculous nature and a miracle.
A miracle is a realization that substitutes for years of learning. In other words a miraculous healing is a quickened process of what already occurs. Remember what will be done is done.

 

Science in terms of making observations and performing experiments has existed long before religion. In fact I would argue that very simple forms of life perform science; they may not have notebooks or hands with which to write, but they try things and learn from the outcomes, and watch the world around them, learning. This is science. It is watching the rubber and the road and seeing what happens when they meet.

I do need science, and so do you. You need it survive. Without observing your environment you will walk off a cliff. Without performing experiments and learning outcomes you will make a great feast of toxic plants and die. You would be killed by a predator outright; you would walk into traffic. You would forget to eat, without observing and following from your observations.

If you are against your idea of "modern science", whatever that may be, that's fine. But you should know that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about fundamental hunter-gatherer intelligence; I'm talking about something as primal as your neurons. The ability to learn about the world. I'm not going to attack "Magick" on the basis of "Magic", so please do the same for science.

Definition: "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."

 

Religion came into being because we thought we did something wrong.
Information exists that we be all right

 

Seeming "hidden knowledge" is (almost) never hidden. Whatever can be accessed, determined by biological/technological abilities or undetermined by neglect or lack of interest, is always present

and available to those for whom a particular interest has been piqued. " When knowledge is desired, a teacher will appear." (Castenada) LSD is one such.

(Unless I misunderstood the nature of the postulate here.)

 

You yourself are advocating a scientific approach to Magick. I am doing the same, but we both come from different backgrounds and have different training and so my "bullshit detector" and "standards of truth" are much higher than yours. I require a much more robust test of the rubber on the road. Jimmy Page in an interview isn't going to cut it. You are talking about manipulation of the universe through praxis of Will and Ritual in order to alter reality. This is a huge claim, Chinacat. Big claims require Big evidence. My issue is with the whole ritual aspect, and Dope as well is trying to point out to you the inherent emptiness of ritual as anything other than, at best, a meditative aid, crosshairs for attention. If that's all that Ritual is to you Chinacat, then magic can be further reduced to simply the application of Will to alter reality, in which case I do not see how it is different from any other state of being or action?

What is the difference between me putting on socks in a secular manner and you putting on socks with Magick? If the difference is the chanting of words and the presence of trinkets (ritual), then surely you see that there is a fundamental problem with the "existence" of anything we can call "Magick"; it sounds like just doing whatever it is your normally do, but while chanting stuff and looking at things.

So continue towards the rubber please. Where is the meeting of the road? Why would anyone want to do Magick? It sounds like a complication of things, not a source of power.

 

We are not just the result of conditioning. Curiosity is a natural part of our function.

 

We only learn what we want to learn. What you count as learning reflects your desire.

 

Fast definition that will cut through unnecessary discussion:
What we are, what you and I are is tasting, learning, and knowing.
No question of our state.

 

It is not inherently empty but tedious to the point of distraction. The most valuable thing we have is time. There is always more to learn. It behooves then to use time wisely.

 

Religion and magic, maybe even science and art all have their roots in shamanism, which is interesting as shamans were the traditional users of psychoactive substances.

The general idea of shamanism is that the shaman can go into other dimensions of reality which are inaccessible to normal consciousness. Surely a candidate there for the prototype of so called esoteric knowledge.