Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

You're the one that's saying it's not real.

 

depends on what it is exactly and who.

 

Did you even read the whole article?

If that's the consensus among the scientific community, why should they feel obliged to make room for a presentation of pseudo-science at a science conference?

It's not dogma they are displaying, it's adherence to genuine scientific integrity.

 

ive had dmt trips where i was presented with a series of boxes ... the best i can describe it are like the boxes at the post office. i could access a box and see what's in it, or put knowledge into it. out of all my dmt trips i've only been able to access those boxes 2 or three times and i think it was the same one each time.

i'm still not sure exactly what was in that box, but i'm pretty sure that i was the one that originally put something into and it's only accessible under certain circumstances .. and you don't get to choose. it wasn't really physical, it was more like a non-physical transfer of information to some location that in normal circumstances you are not even capable of being aware it exists (that location). under certain circumstances normally hidden information becomes available, such as knowing that certain information even exists in the first place. to find something you have to first know where to look, and that that place even exists. not all things can be accessed in the ways that are most familar.

it really makes me contemplate the way our minds work in some ways. our mind seems to try to map things to locations in physical space so that we can access them that way (x, y, z coordinates, etc) and normally that is the only way you can access locations but what if that was just some kind of abstraction layer over the true nature of things, and this isn't actually the way reality really is, sort of like virtual memory in computers where memory addresses are mapped to locations in memory but not necessarily the real addresses so that some addresses are normally inaccessible?

i sort of feel that the mind is somewhat like a computer, and that consciousness is just some kind of virtual emulated layer on top of something else (the subconscious mind?) and that some parts of the mind are normally inaccessible and cannot be accessed or modified from a normal state of consciousness. i wonder how many layers there really are to reality/consciousness.

i don't see why there aren't more experiments done on consciousness, possibly involving psychedelics? i suppose it's not regarded as real science.

 

They must use kundalini power, lol

Plans for an ancient Indian aircraft

 

I wouldn't be surprised if modern scientists wouldn't fully understand how Extraterrestrial technology that is very old would work. Doesn't mean they couldn't go into further studies.

 

what difference does it make whether the external world is real or not, or that it is what it seems to be?

if you could simulate an entire universe in a supercomputer the simulated universe would behave exactly as it would if it were not a simulation, and the fact it was a simulation would really be irrelevant to anything residing inside the simulation.

 

I would say that internal and external are one and the same. A coin is neither heads nor tails but simply the coin. Both sides exist but one could not exist without the other.

 

I wanted to go that route but I got denied a research study on the effects of pregnant rats and alcohol. I've looked into MAPS, which does psychedelic studies, mostly for therapeutic uses yet they provide very few amenities in joining their team and they are fairly selective in who they choose.

I don't know much about the structure of a computer but would you say our mind is like a computer or is it more that computers are an idealized projection of our minds?

It's probably not best to view the brain in such a way but we essentially have 3 or 4 different parts of brain... A reptilian brain, a mammalian brain, a primate brain, then our own unique brains.

On top of this, bilateral communication via the corpus callosum which allows for transfer of information of the 2 hemispheres which have specialized functions and 4 different lobes which also are oriented to particular functions make our perceptually unified state of mind pretty amazing.

 

it depends on what level of abstraction you are dealing with and at what point certain information becomes relevant. a black box performs a certain function, what actually goes on inside of the box is not normally relevant in order to make use of the box external to it.

 

in some ways ... it depends on how you look at it. the function of each is quite different, the purpose that each are used for and exactly how they achieve these things.

but in another way, they are quite the same, they are both computational devices, and i believe that reality itself is computational and can be represented as algorithms.

complex systems can often be represented in different ways depending on the level of abstraction you are dealing with (are you looking at the system at the lowest level, or are you dealing with it from a high level).

the consciousness we are normally aware of is only one level of abstraction, and i don't think it is possible for us to conceptualize the whole system. looking at any system at the lowest level (if it is a very complex system) will only allow you to see a very small part of the complete operation but in the finest level of detail. zooming out across levels of abstraction you are aware of different processes (higher level constructs) that are impossible to recognize when looking at things from the lowest level ... and actually they may seem to be completely different systems in behavior and functionality. these higher level constructs emerge and can be dealt with as the larger pieces they are without the details being relevant.

these different "layers" represent different things and might as well be different universes even tho they are all part of the same mechanism ... our ego decides which peices of functioning are relevant.

it's hard to comprehend what happens in severely altered states of consciousness ... when ego death occurs there is this type of disintegration .. where you are aware of so much at once but none of it really resembles anything familiar from normal states. it's like you become aware of a lower level of functioning, or somehow cross levels of abstraction and at a point they blur together. sometimes maybe we are able to become aware of things from an even higher level than ordinary.

at some point tho, these levels blur together, or go into some kind of crazy recursive loop where you do deeper and deeper and somehow end up exactly where you were without actually ascending or descending back up. i think it's impossible to perceive the system (reality) for what it really is, i.e. see the big picture and at the same time be aware of all the details. we're only allowed to perceive things from a certain limited abstraction level .. at some point it becomes impossible to keep track of the relevance of certain bits of information in relation to others when they cross sufficient levels of abstraction.

edit: in the second to last paragraph .. i think it's necessary to try to explain that it's not always possible to distinguish whether one level is higher or lower than the next, maybe there's no difference. it's seems there can be a recurrence of similar states but at different levels.

 

at what point are two systems similar? because they function similarly on some level. at one level they may appear to function the same but underneath they achieve their functionality in completely different ways. the result is the same tho ... on some level that is relevant. which level is that tho?

at the lowest level, all things are the same.

 

Freud promoted the idea of a layered consciousness, primarily consisting of ID (basically animal instincts), ego (our normal state of consciousness), superego (essentially our conscience). He saw these lower and higher levels of consciousness being basically sparsely filtered through the ego and conscious mind and the unconscious mind representing most of the mental sphere. Is this kind of what you are referring to?

I think psychedelics expose the significant differences in our evolved brain structures. The lower structures are what cause alot of the sense of dying, alarm, euphoria or libidinal stimulation, the other parts of brain deal with this in their respective ways as well.

 

yes and no ... possibly both :\

think about the pixels on a screen ... together they make up an image that means something, but if you zoom in they are just colored dots and don't seem to bear any relationship to the image itself, but they are part of it. you percieve the image as what it means to you. you do not perceive however many individual pixels. an individual pixel might be one shade of red and another be a darker shade of red and then another a shade of green. individually they do not yet have meaning but we are aware of the picture they make up in whole.

now imagine that you take that entire picture ... say that this particular picture (made up of millions of pixels) is overall red. another picture (also made of pixels) is overall green, and you take millions of those pictures and zoom way out, so that each picture is like an individual pixel in a larger image. after zooming out so much you are aware of the big picture, but are not aware of the smaller images and even if you could be, it would be impossible to integrate the smaller images as having meaning in relation to the larger image. they are seperate levels of abstraction.

 

it is apparent that we've known this s*** a long long

 

Astrology fails spectacularly on its own merits. I don't need to bring anything to the table other than "show me that you work and are a real thing", and astrology fails utterly.

The most basic test will confirm this. Any test you can think of.

Some questions for you to honestly ponder:

- have you perused the pantheon of current scientific studies on consciousness?

- have you perused the pantheon of current scientific studies on psychedelics?

- do you regularly read entire scientific papers in the fields studying consciousness or psychedelics?

- should someone's commentary on "science" as a whole be taken seriously if they don't?

- Is your supposing that it's not regarded as real science, a scientific point of view?

- have you looked into whether experiments on consciousness/psychedelics are scientific (kind of a tautology, an experiment is by definition scientific)

- what are the preconceptions and cultural norms in you which would cause you to purport that there is a lack of studies on psychedelics and consciousness, and that perhaps the scientific community would not view such fields as worthy of study?

I don't expect an answer from you. These are just to make you think about where you are coming from and where I am coming from and where we can meet and be productive

Let's all be honest and upfront, about ourselves and about the data, even if it conflicts with our beliefs. If that is "dogma", then so be it. I choose this "dogma" over all others.

 

let's do that again more precisely astrology speaks the language of our personality

 

let's do that again more precisely astrology speaks the language of our personality

 

the Sun is o ur informer of gross mercury is the planet of communication or our level of we are closest to the Sun at that Apo venus represents the lovely passion in lifegee the earth is where we love and we are loved in Mars we find contention in Saturn we find utility and in Jupiter we find the ruler of the mind of all the senses that is the giant gas bag

 

Fucking what?