Esoteric, (Hidden,) Knowledge

How long does it take to awaken?
A single thought can change an entire mind, in an instant!

 

Ring in the virgin birth

Joy to the world

 

Post 438 is illumined by post 426

High

My name is Johnny Oliver

Oliver

Bearer of the olive branch

Please accept my gift

 

We have labored long to receive it.

 

I've already given you the nitty gritty. I've been coming from the same perspective for a while. I've told you the process of basic ceremonial magick already.

That's not a good excuse to say that it's regarding people in the Science community but it's not Science itself. So Terence McKenna, the article, and myself are all just incorrect then with using the term Science, since it IS a community of people, and it IS a paradigm on life? Since you're more advanced? Ok fine, but then you might as well have the same outlook towards religious people vs. religion itself.

Can you explain why we all NEED Science, especially animals who don't even know what that term means?

Can you explain how and why religion, alchemy, magick...all basic forms of human evolution as far as learning and growing is concerned...are somehow separated from Science, what you also claim is to be learning and growing and to also be older than religion itself?

What is your response to the whole Rupert Sheldrake video? What is your basic response to the fact that there is an underlying countermovement taking place in the Science community as we speak regarding Consciousness and reality and the paradigms on existence? What makes you feel that this is unrelated to either Kundalini or Magick? What is your basic reaction to his constant use, as a SCIENTIST, of the Science Community being Dogmatic?

Why haven't you answered my question regarding how you think that matter can have consciousness and yet see no conceivable way how a ritual can have an effect on reality?

 

I showed you

 

What is your basic response to the Winter King post? Did you listen to it?

 

And also, you make this defense that all the info that you need can be found wherever regarding Science. Anybody can use a telescope, etc. I made the exact same claim about Magick and Magickal information, and that anybody can practice it. Alchemy alone is a universal undercurrent to all of humanity's psyche across all time and national borders. Jung has already proved that (regarding Alchemy transcending national barriers between East and West). It's older than Science. It's older than fuck. It's ridiculous for you to make that claim about Science and act like you can't get on the internet, go to your local library, etc. to find any info that you need on esoteric subjects, which therefore demands my personal stories and experiences for you to be satisfied. It may be a little harder to find but once you know where to search out of pure interest, it's easy to find. Just go to google, for example, and start searching anything you want.

And why are you acting like Science can be communicated across millennia? Science is not that old man. I already gave the year that term was even created. Before that, it was called Natural Philosophy. However, if you are referring to Alchemy as Science then yes you are correct that it can be communicated across millennia, since Alchemy is far, far older than Science. Not to mention Astrology and Magic.

For example: Stonehenge, The Mayan Calendar, the Mayan Pyramids, just to name a few, are all based off of Astrology. Astrology was not seen as separate and distinct to Astronomy. Astrology WAS Astronomy. There was no distinction. The movement of the planets and the stars and the relationship between man and Cosmos was seen as One thing. So you are right that Science has existed for a long time, but not to the expense of Spirituality not being an integral part to it. It wasn't until the Modern Science was born that a separation occurred. But don't try to act like THIS Science, meaning Modern Science, has spanned over millennia. That's simply not true.

And as history shows, humanity flourished and lived richly for a very long time, whether it's the Mayans or Egyptians or countless others, and they all did it without Modern Science. They may have lived and you can point out that this and that is what you consider Science, but that doesn't mean that Spirituality wasn't right in the exact same spot as what you consider Science. Like building the pyramids or Stonehenge, you may regard to as Science, but that shit was based off of Astrology directly. Another term for it may be called Archaeoastronomy. And they did it without telescopes. Those primitive Mayans.

 

Don't you get it yet? Science isn't something we have created. Science is a method of observing what we see in reality. The otter uses the scientific method when he tries to open a clam. He hits it on a soft, sandy bank, and it doesn't break. He hits it against a rock and it breaks. So he will continue hitting it on the rock that works for his purpose, right?

Religion is not a method that can be tested. Sure, based on personal experience. But you can't tell me that you know your God is real until you meet him.

Alchemy may have been a pre-cursor to modern chemistry, however since no one wants to practice it anymore, how will we get any worthwhile results? Although alchemy may have laid the groundwork for some of what we know today (and I'm sure it did), it isn't the best method. Thus we no longer use it. Have a look at the modern periodic table of the elements (and LEARN what it means. there are many fine details), and then have a look at what the alchemists used to use. If you STILL tell me alchemy is the way forward, well, then please prove it to me.

Like I said, alchemy did teach us about certain chemical combinations, I'm sure. People who practiced alchemy made some valid scientific contributions to the modern scientific community. However there's a reason why most of the alchemical practices haven't survived - because they don't work. And if you have a look at what we know about atoms now (and have a look as well at the studies/scientists who have created our model of the atom) you will see that we think of them differently than we used to.

Also, isn't the production of NEW, synthetic elements a type of alchemy? Strange that alchemists didn't do that, but physicists.

Magick is just a way to concentrate your will, right? So why can't I use it in conjunction with science? And once again, as we have covered, why does everyone require it?


Anyway man.. no one is saying we need modern science. You can still go and live in a forest without any technology, medicine or anything. We don't need any of this, but it sure is pretty handy, right?

 

Who gives a fuck about what we call it? It's what it IS that matters... the principles of science are universal, all things that don't follow them go extinct.

 

"So why can't I use Magick in conjunction with Science?" Don't ask me that. that's what I have been asking. Ask the modern Scientific Community. And ask them about Kundalini also.

Alchemy is not what you think it is. It's not just the attempt to transmute metals into Gold. It's a spiritual path.

 

Oh got it. So when the world wipes itself out due to WW3 and Nuclear war, it will be because we didn't follow the Universal principles of Science. It will have nothing to do with our obsession with Science and how "handy" it is.

Or when Dinosaurs got wiped out in an instant, it's because they weren't conforming to the Universal principles of Science. Sounds pretty dogmatic to me, does it not? "But a comet hitting the Earth is Science!" Yeah, so what? What does that have to conforming to the Universal principles of Science? I could just as easily say that it was the Will of God that the Dinosaurs got wiped out by a comet. What makes a comet destroying a race of beings in one instant more Science than the Will of God? Please, using the Scientific Method, show me proof that this wasn't the Will of God and that it's somehow more Science than God.

 

And do you guys realize how long the ancient Egyptians lived? FAR longer than our current civilization! And you're trying to argue that just because we exist now and have "advanced" knowledge of Science that we're somehow going to outdo the Egyptians when we are currently not even remotely close, and are actually closer than ever previously conceived of global destruction BECAUSE of Science?

And so it doesn't matter what we call it, it's what Science IS that matters, and since the Mayans and Egyptians no longer exist, they didn't evolve to our current state because of their lack of understanding of Science compared to today (even though they lasted far longer than our current civilization has).

And so if it's what Science IS that matters, then how can you separate Alchemy and Magic from Science before the birth of the Modern Scientific Revolution? You said that the word Science doesn't matter. So where is Science then in ancient cultures? And how can you explain the fact that those civilizations lasted far longer than our current civilization, and they did it without Modern Science, but with THEIR Science, which was Alchemy, Astrology, and Magic?

 

Derp... derp...

Is tripping on LSD different if you call it Acid or Lucy?

 

Is Astrology different if you call it Astronomy? Is basically what you're asking me. To which most of you would answer YES with a fury.

I'm the one that's arguing that Magic, Alchemy, and Astrology were practices that were both a Science (before the term existed) and a Spiritual practice, since that's actually the historical truth of the matter. It's literally what guided them to not only how to build their pyramids, but where precisely to build them in accordance to the Sun. And this was the basis of their calendric systems and how they managed their crops and lived their life.

 

You are ignorant.

 

Did you see mine?

 

Meteor, heart attack, growth rate of your fingernails... some things are more or less out of our control. To be honest dude, if you didn't cling so tightly to your perspective you could take a step back and view each opinion objectively, including your own, and you wouldn't find the need to retort with such ridiculously primitive arguments that are riddled with misunderstandings due to unclear thinking as a result of intense frustration. Maybe your comprehension skills suck, if so I'd work on them. Something clearly isn't working for you, and it's not the fact the people disagree with you.

You think any of us just wanna stir your shit cos we're bored or don't like you? Writer explained previously, quite eloquently, what the scientific method involves, which people adopt in Magick and what my dog employs along with the worms in the garden. In laymans terms.. "don't do shit that doesn't work". Science is handy, you bloody tool. What we need to exercise in order to save humanity isn't Magick, or to study Magick with Science(do you even recognise the irony that's present in this whole argument of yours by the way?) but a strong sense of personal integrity.

 

Actually, it was me who simply started a thread with enthusiasm and got attacked by plenty of people on this thread. Now I'm being called a bloody tool.

What we need is a renewed sense of Spirituality to accompany our Science so that we don't find the need to create nuclear bombs.

The study of Kundalini would be a great aid in this process. This isn't just about me. This is about Kundalini for all of people that are experiencing it in the world. A growing number of people.

Yes, please keep telling yourself that something clearly isn't working for me. You know me so well. I thought we weren't promoting speculation here on this forum?

If I'm a bloody tool then I guess Terence McKenna is one too (his entire Winter King audio and The Alchemical Dream video completely do a better job at putting into words what I have been trying to say) and same with Rupert Sheldrake, and that article that I posted.

And actually, it's the Scientific Method that adopts the Magickal methods, as it was Magick that existed first. Not the Scientific Method. All of the roots of language, tools, approaches from Science began with Alchemy, Astrology, and Magic. The universe didn't suddenly begin the moment the Scientific Method was invented. It existed prior to that.

There's nothing ironic or something that I'm "not getting" about my argument.

My argument has been very clear and I have repeated it over and over. And yet still there are these claims that I'm not being clear.

I never said anything about Science not being a relevant part of humanity. How many times do I have to repeat this? The argue pertains to the fact that the Modern Scientific Community, as pointed out by multiple sources that have already been posted and by myself, is a modern paradigm that is bloated and sees spiritual notions as bullshit, such as all of you on this forum reflect. To deny that it should begin studying spiritual shit is to deny Science (and evolution) itself, and limit its capacity for discovery, and shows why Modern Science is kind of its own dogma.

 

Actually it was me that started this thread and you are making a mockery of yourself. Not in the least bit to be unkind.