Does God Exist?

That is unless our terms are consensual. Life's proportions are in fact indefinite. Our societies function on the basis of consensual understanding for example money is an agreement. I think god dead/dying?, because consumerism doesn't support consensual understanding relying instead on filling the markets of personal taste in an obviously self serving and antagonistic way. It is endemically out of proportion to genuine laws of energetic exchange that is for every action there is and equal and complementary reaction and instead claims efficiency in paying a little and expecting a lot in return, (bargain hunting and variable exchange rates) Before industrialization the ethos of good effort was obvious. Now we think we are sly but the evidence increasingly is we don't know what we are doing although we are learning.






.

 

----Such a perfect example of objectivistic rationalism at work. AiryFox takes a subjective understanding (his own) based on rationalism, and then he projects it out onto the world around him. Because what is rationally acceptable to him, is obviously rationally acceptable to everyone, because everyone outside of himself, are simply objects—void of their own subjective feelings, experiences, needs, and understandings. They become little more than simply tools towards social change. Once we take away the opiate of the masses—then they can all function towards a better good---a rationally sound society.

After all, who cares if the epidemics of addiction, violence, depression, and so forth are often based on a lack of meaning. And that many people need meaning in their lives that the promise of a godless society where death is the final end to a mundane life just does not provide.

Now in his favor he has perhaps given us an insight into why he is so outspoken---Post 431 (on page 44), where he speaks of the divisive and politically dangerous motivations of certain Christian groups. He has been faced with the same objectivistic nonsense that you are either a Christian and with us, or you are against us. Because once you have found Jesus Christ, you are guaranteed eternal life, and so everyone needs it, and that does mean they can speak for everyone else… Fundamentalism has a dangerous hand in National politics and direction, one fine example is the national idiocy concerning global warming, and the ongoing attempts to control women and fight against women’s rights.

Now I know there is Biblical proof against science, giving credence to Anti-Science:

“Genesis 3:25 And lo the lord did not use monkeys to create man, for it was truth that man came to be even with the dinosaurs, and that the Lord did allow Adam in order to use the dinosaurs for both pleasure, like in an amusement park, and for hard labor such as to buildeth the pyramids and plant telephone poles all over the earth.

And the Lord did saith unto Adam that he did make the earth in the period of six earth days and then he rested and that one day Adam’s descendants would rise up against the Lord and say that the earth is getting hotter, but that this was not true, for the Lord did maketh the earth in six days, and it was perfect.

And so it was, that Adam was to write these things which the Lord hath said unto him. So he did write them onto a rock. But then he lost the rock, for Adam was like that, which is why he allowed Eve to eat upon the tree of knowledge, when she should have been preparing his meals.”

…wait… You mean there is no such scripture? Then all that creationist stuff is BS?!

Ok---having joked about Genesis, let me say that what people like AiryFox do not realize is that it is actually a genius piece of psychological insight. To me, the part that deals with man, is not necessarily a tale of man’s creation as much as it is a tale of the creation of man as a civilized being. But it is also a tale of the emergence of the ego, and the development of the ego-shadow complex. In fact, you find such genius in the mythology from all over the world---because this all comes to us, not in the language of the physical reality around us, but in the language of the subconscious.

But he would have us dismiss all of this as silly rubbish from a bygone era when primitive savages tried to make sense out of their retarded inability to understand life and the physical processes around them.

Today’s rationalist objectivism, whether arising from the religious camps, or from the atheist camps is part of the modern problem. It is time to rediscover the value of being human. AiryFox, you claim to be a Humanist, yet you stray so far from allowing humans to be valuable as humans---to enable the intrinsic value they have as individuals.

Karl Marx began with an ideal that sought to give value back to humans as individuals. His writings when he was younger were very humanistic. But the further he moved away from the idealism of Hegel, i.e. the more objectivistic he became, then the further into rarionalism he moved creating a science that very effectively created State slaves.

Religion has the same ability---all you have to do is look at the fascist writings of Mussolini to see evidence of that.

You wrote about turning to Science Fiction to see how man could possibly improve his lot in life. I suggest you look at the Hunger Games trilogy (assuming that the movies portray the books accurately---I haven’t read the books yet). This is clearly a tale of subjectivism rising up against the repression of rationalistic objectivism. It is interesting how the movie uses motifs from Ancient Rome---as rationalism roared forth in all its glory as the Empire around it collapsed. And this is just as happened to the Greeks before them. The hunger game itself is a rational attempt to control mankind’s instinct to violence, and to control the masses—people that are, after all, nothing more than objects meant to support the greed of the capital, and provide amusement. Yet this lone female dares to think different, and as an individual stands up against this dystopic world of the future.

 

Naiwen, are you taking notes?

 

I agree. Descartes was right about that. The one thing we can be sure of is our own consciousness. But is it really ours, or do we share it?

 

It seems obvious that we share our thoughts and to me unlikely there is such a thing as individual or isolated consciousness although there are individual focal points even those are binocular. We always choose with a guide. I think qualia are a theory based on the evidence that we can see the body but not the mind and the invisible mind in a separate body gives the appearance of unique experience but I think that uniqueness is only skin deep. Varying in form but not essential content. We share mammalian brain chemicals and share with our species neurosystem design. The human body far from being personal property is common currency of the species.

 

That is true. Again referring to the Lakota and their yuwipi and house ceremonies. They all generally experience the same supernatural events within the ceremony. But they were raised in these ways, and experienced them before they questioned them. They are open to a truth that Modern Man is not.

Amazing healings, synchronicities, and other crazy events are therefore a part of their lives on an ongoing basis. They have a consensual understanding of their ways and beliefs.

 

conciousness then is not exclusionary yet may be protected . the
expression of this is a circle of family , hand in hand . uje

 

thedope:

Who are you a copy of? I ask again. All life is its own, even a clone. Do you think lifes being shared, its 'belonging', means it isn't entirely original?!

thedope to Okiefreak:

There is no isolated consciousness, but there is individual consciousness. Consciousness is physical.

Nothing sinister, but sick, yes. The only thing essential to our efforts is desire.

How does claiming 'god' put food in my stomach?

You want god to exist, but not as a person. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is your own observation not sufficient that you must insist god exists for everyone?

Characters like Dejavu have heard all the talk of god before. Unless gods hangers-on, ( yourself included ) produce a living, physical being, that they find worthy of the name, I have only their shutting up to look forward to. :-D

The abstraction, the unicorn for instance, is a physical phenomenon as the firing of neurons in the brain that produces it. The will is physical. Thought is physical. Everything is physical. If you find it mental, it's nevertheless physical.

Your 'if' is hanging fire. I recall you don't know what that expression means. God is not all we invoke.

How, when not all claims are 'god'?

God exists, not for, or because of me, but those who willingly engage the concept and perpetuate it.

The part can't help but define the whole, not being it in more than part. Definition is ongoing. That you are your condition in full does not stop you going on being it. The 'whole' is not static, but infinite. You still want to pretend your pet phrases I've pointed out to be worded as lies are actual maxims? For what? That you may find your equals in illiteracy?!

Spirit is life, but it's not our only claim on it. Spirit is never without its embodiment.

 

Tl;dr

I think the speed freaks are at it again

 

Tikoo:

:-D

Confirmed. I will call upon you to translate for me if my own language ever becomes all I speak, that I may not be locked away.

Spoken, yes, which isn't to say anything need be lost in the writing, but to invent on the spot, in the spirit as you say, the response shall be free. Taking on new meaning is something we've yet to stop. And who says we have to?

 

But I'm Dejavu! :-D

 

No life is alone. Life's proportions are indefinite and a copy does not mean the exact same thing. The copy is patterned emergence, the state of becoming, and patterned emergence is not a who.
Genetics.
Are you your own origin? You may have novel ideas but ideas are abstract, shared by the one mind. The sounds in my mind just come to me! How is this so, by association. Listen to the strings they jangle and dangle while the old guitar rings.

Your consciousness is split or divided between yes and no sir individualot.
There is one thing consciousness of which there are many focal points or facets, abstract for sure so not succinctly physical however it is fundamentally conditional. Phenomena are indiscriminate which is the same as saying love is unconditional, until we discriminate by speaking with conviction, (that which we invoke.) Con=with and diceire means to speak, the word condition means to speak with.

Crystals transduce energy flowing through them into spectral patterns that keep their integrity as no matter how large the crystal grows it's angles are faithfully reproduced. Dendritic constructions are organic crystals. Once you fasten a mental pattern to an observed phenomena the perception will be reproduced without further modification indefinitely. That is why we can identify a tree or a knee.

Your desire is not indiscriminate as you claim. There is good for you and you must have it.

Understand the meaning of the word god instead of calling upon an anthropomorphic version of your lover.
There is good for you, (food,) and you must have it, equals motivation, motion towards good, god, the light of right, illumination, luminosity. Motion and luminosity are the unconditional essence of all phenomena.

Here is the correction. I see god as the energetic motivator of all life and persons but not for my wanting to, however the result of my seeking.

My own observation is not sufficient for agreement in terms among fellows.
Does god exist?
Why ask questions if it is not answers that are sought and if you can't find what you are looking for, where you are looking for it, why not look somewhere else. An answer is always some form of peace or conflict resolution and it is the answer that teaches not the problem. My claim for god does not seek outside ourselves wherein are all conceivable measures.

Sounds like you say if I don't show you monsters you're not going to believe in monsters. Why do you want to believe in monsters Dejavu. We have meaning we can identify and share.

Shush!
You need to be present to the moment and environment all senses awake, (without emotional desperation,) when the breath leaves the body to understand the claim of spirit on the body. As I described to you I felt the breath pass through me and on, ever becoming.

 

You didn't believe me when I said cocks love to strut their stuff!
You godted word phobias, god and vain in particular.

We refresh or weary ourselves as we avail ourselves of opportunity.
May you ever remain schmuckless.

 

Either I am getting too old to keep track of all these names (which surely isn't the case (No girls, I'm not that old and I can be real fun on a date!!!)), or...

Dejavu...! you are the one behind the curtain!!!

Of course! Storch does not exist----just all smoke and mirrors, and a giant mechanical steam powered automaton!

It is Dejavu that works the levers and buttons and pulls the chains to operate this abomination of nature... Oh I should have known---no living thing could create such sparks and steam and fire, and make such a horrendous noise thundering across the valleys, mountains, and moors. Such things are not natural---not among man nor beast...

Oh what dastardly plans does this Dejavu have against all of humanity? What evil doth he wreak upon all who dare step in his path. I am like a small cockroach scampering away in vain, desperately seeking to save my miserable life, but just as in a Franz Kafka story, my world grows smaller and smaller as all sides close in upon me, and the thunderous feet of this wretched monster slam down upon my pitiful body so close as to afford barely a moment of escape... And all the while it is Dejavu, pulling the levers and speaking into the microphone of some fantastic electrical machine...

Oh dear-----with this amazing new insight-----I must go back---no---we all must go back and reread each and every passage of this thread to see the true mechanized manipulation that has gone on here...

Ach! mein gott im himmel!!! Vat have I stumbled onto hier!

 

Actually this is a result of mental focus or slowing the lust for stimulation, a point of personal satisfaction.

 

Whatever you believe EXISTS by definition. A belief is an idea, right ? Ideas only exist inside poeple's brains, right? So if the existence of God is firmly lodged inside your head, then he exists -for YOU. It's doubtful if we can ever know much about the "universe-out-there" because it's filtered by our own limited understanding. Personally, like you, Naiwen, I don't have any god because it just makes everything more complicated

 

Airy Fox is basically taking the position of any fanatic that his views are the correct ones, the billions of people who disagree with him are fools, and that one size fits all. Yet I know so many people who have been helped out of the gutter by believing in the Higher Power of Twelve Step programs that seem to work for them--at least they think they do. They're objectively better people and in better control of their lives than before their recovery. Is Airy Fox confident enough to tell them they're mistaken, that such foolish notions aren't really necessary for their recovery, and they should put them aside? Yes, I know there are secular alternatives to such programs. Maybe they also work. But the point is that these people have chosen a course of action that seems to work for them, and there's no evidence that something might work better for them. History is replete with examples of cocksure rationalists making decisions that turned out to have disastrous unintended consequences. That's why we require environmental impact statements, as a reality check for arrogant technocrats.

 

In the absence of good works that is true. For example a chair is an idea brought to life.

It is your quest for personal good that lends ease to your personal perspective as you have made a determination for yourself.
Perhaps less complicated in absence of the question, does god exist. Existence is shared and like I say the answer to any question is some form of conflict resolution. If you say both it exists and it does not exist it is a conflicted statement by definition.

 

How do they travel from one brain to another ? How may a tree
whisper I love you ?

 

by making oxygen and dotting any landscape with beauty and standing still in wisdom.....