Does God Exist?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Naiwen, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    It's definitely a fine line, you know what other group often calls upon the supernatural and often reports senses of extreme power?

    Serial killers
     
  2. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Know who else, any one who says you make me so mad I could.
     
  3. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Really? I had a roomate once who used to say to me...you make me so mad, I could kill you, but then she just wound up giving me a kiss....LOL

    I still talk to her to this day.....:)
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Yes really. Not all people are killers.
     
  5. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Yeah, I know...sometimes, it is just a matter of passion....have to know, though, which is which....:)

    She's great. I miss her....
     
  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I never mentioned the supernatural or extreme power. I only mentioned a life-changing moment of clarity.
     
  7. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Nor have I although I have stated that the abstract is not succinctly physical and there are no idle thoughts.
     
  8. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    That is an odd statement....calling upon a god for help is calling on a supernatural power, no?...or to whatever forces there be for help.....again....must make a distinction......as everyone does this....not just serial killers.

    and I have been visited by ghosts, too, but never invited them....LOL
     
  9. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    NG explicitly used those terms, I inferred that the supernatural played some part in your "moment of clarity" then you went on to mention you may be crazy.. if I misunderstood, please clarify what you mean by "moment of clarity."
     
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Fist of all, let's clarify your own inferences. I know of no scientific studies showing that most serial killers have had supernatural experiences, or even thought they had. I doubt that Ted Bundy, Wayne Gacy, or even Charles Manson had such delusions, although some of Manson's followers may have thought he was God. If serial killers include mass murderers like Stalin, Mao,Pol Pot, and the Kims, they were atheists, so presumably weren't into the supernatural. Nor does it seem that all or most people who have religious experiences are serial killers. The weight of scientific research suggests that religion is conducive to, not detrimental to, good mental health. For a good review, see H.G. Koenig, Religion, Spirituality and Health, ISRN Psychiatry,Volume 2012 (2012), Article ID 278730,
    http://dx.doi.org/10.5402/2012/278730. So show us your research.

    As for that "moment of clarity", I happened to see a passage in Genesis 2, the one that says God created us in His image and likeness, and saw meaning in it I hadn't seen before: that every human we encounter is a reflection of God, and therefore is a religious experience. This is very similar to the Hindu concept of Atman. This simple idea made going to WalMart a whole new experience, and set off a train of thought that I'm still working out, and it was accompanied by powerful emotion (which is different from a feeling of personal power). Powerful emotions need to be kept on a short leash--that's what logic and science are for. I daresay, I'm more skeptical than lots of atheists on this forum. Now do you think that's likely to make me a serial killer? I'd say, quite the opposite. But is it "true", was it "real"? The reality is that it seemed intuitively compelling to me, and I chose to act on it, like a good existentialist. It improved my outlook on life and, in my opinion, made me a better person, so from a pragmatic standpoint, it's "true for me". Like chicken soup, it didn't hurt. BTW, I'm a non-literalist when it comes to interpreting the Bible, especially Genesis. I also prefer natural explanations for events, but the experience was compelling, and the gamble is mine.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    This didn't sound right to me...so I checked.....

    (I see that okie covered this.)
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    This appears to be rather weak.

    From the study:
    If we look at these statements, it would appear that the major benefit is stress reduction. In addition this study is only concerned with benefits within a set social group:
    It does not address how others outside of the group are influenced by the religion in question.

    Historically, for certain groups religion was absolutely not conducive to good mental health.

    And without researching, I am sure there have been serial killers who were religious, such as Jim Jones.
     
  13. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    It's funny you should mention Manson before relaying your experience because one of his sources he saw meaningful hidden messages from was from Bible Passages as well. Charles Manson had some very delusional beliefs, he Did believe he was prophetic and had visions of jumpstarting a race war.

    So I'm fascinated why someone like you can have a "moment of clarity" and I assume remain 'normal' in a functional sense as where someone like Manson gets entirely invested into his perceptions of "clarity." That's an example of that thin line I was talking about.

    I don't doubt that someone drunk with power can commit terrible acts under the guise of atheism or even as an atheist, but a quick research over the leaders/dictators you listed as atheist shows that some of them had religion involved in their upbringing. That's not to completely absolve atheism but does it suggest anything about how certain aspects of religions ingrained into people as a child may affect them later on?

    Stalin:

    http://www.pbs.org/redfiles/bios/all_bio_joseph_stalin.htm

    Pol Pot

    http://history1900s.about.com/od/people/a/Pol-Pot.htm

     
  14. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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  15. trndpage2006

    trndpage2006 Member

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    I was wrong should have checked the souse,actually spent the hole next day at university web sit looking for info on that project ,the project took place but not as stated in video, got to admit was a good hoax but if I.m wrong ill say so ,
     
  16. AiryFox

    AiryFox Member

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    Not my words, but I had to share it:

    The only evidence for no god is the lack of evidence for god.
     
  17. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    But the post I was replying to stated that it was the norm. Somebody should research that.
     
  18. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    Serial Killers and Supernatural

    From a blog by Katherine Ramsland

    Katherine Ramsland (born in 1953 from Michigan) is a non-fiction author and associate professor of forensics psychology. She lived in Michigan until 1971 when she moved to Oregon. Ramland has written 47 books and more than 1,000 articles, mostly in the genres of crime, forensic science, and the supernatural.


     
  19. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    the greatest metaphor for the dark mind is nothingness . this
    can be trusted as harmless . for many more people than actually
    enact them , horrific angry fantasies reside there . such a condition
    may arise articulated - a terrible sort of cursing , drunken , abusive ,
    of mangled twisted manipulative social language . it is the maelstrom .
    what's to do about it ?
     
  20. Dejavu

    Dejavu Until the great unbanning

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    thedope:
    You exist. For yourself primarily. Whether you exist for me is up to you. That hasn't answered my question though. Are you god, or not?


    You're not really wondering that are you? I remember you were involved at one time with sadism, or something like it, but think on this thedope! You know me, don't you?

    Perhaps, for now. :-D

    Lie upon lie. No, all parts satisfy everythings uniqueness. You talk of what you suppose to be the self-denial of others! You say you and your source are one. Are you god or not? Why be in two minds about it? Who do you think you're satsifying?!

    That there are no idle thoughts doesn't support your lie that the abstract is not physical, succinctly or otherwise. Quite the reverse.
     

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