Does God Exist?

Are you suggesting that a wild cat or dog does not possess a moral framework simply because they are not tamed?

 

I am not suggesting anything....
it is prudent for survival for many wild dogs to be in packs. One coyote has a hard time bringing down a deer......
they have their own society conducive to their survival...not because they think about it and think....well, it would be wrong for me to....blah, blah, blah...

male lions will go into a pride of other lions and if the baby lions are not his, he will kill them all, so he can mate with the females...and be king. is that moral by our standards?

 

Money equals what you find valuable or what you invest yourself in.

 

Our standards are not standard. Kill the infidel!

 

The former example with the coyotes does not necessarily seem immoral by our standards. There is even the assumption that the kill is necessary for food, which cannot be said about some humans who hunt for sport.

The lion example does not seem moral by our standards.. However I said relative types of morality. Even with that said, there is still human behavior which is comparable to that behavior: Kidnappings, drowning kids, terrorists killing innocent civilians, etc.

 

Screw the money, I'll take the water...

 

Mythbusters episode, fully explained and replicated.

 

and i agree with you here......full heartedly....which is why i will trust an animal sooner than any human most times....animals never pretend to be anything that they are not...they are who they are every minute......
and i do not pass moral judgement on any animal kingdom.....nor do i place much in humans......I was just saying humans introduced morality into nature earlier......back to god......which i think is just pure love that anyone can have.

 

or give.....

 

Humans arrived late on the evolutionary scene. I'm suggesting the precedent for morality had already been set by the time we got here..

 

http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2010/04/22/chimpanzees-prefer-fair-play-o/

 

by whom?

what to you is morality?

 

I'm not sure I could pick a distinct species. The link posted by briezie exemplifies what I'm getting at though.

http://scienceblogs.com/primatediaries/2010/04/22/chimpanzees-prefer-fair-play-o/

A social framework involving behavioral conduct and/or acknowledgement which presumably benefits the individual and group.

 

Im guessing that morality begins as we develop empathy . There is truth to that term,"gut feeling" when disgusted , which are reactions from our limbic system telling us that whatever we are doing is wrong .Even if we don't believe morality might be inherent , in that manner, I believe it could be

 

I wonder if the question might not be really how it begins, as much as it would be what makes it transcend beyond a primal sense of fairness. I understand social and cultural influences, but there seems to be something more to it.
Love perhaps?

 

Thirst

 

categorical imperative.

 

Yes, so your reasoning or definition here is for survival to any group...not necassarily morality.....now, a dolphin going out of its survival way to help a human in distress is something....what good do humans do for their survival?

 

Perhaps morality is an outgrowth of group survival but there are aspects which can be included in group survival which are not necessarily consistent with " presumably benefiting the individual and the group" so I see my definition more apt specifically for morality, rather than group survival.


I didn't really follow the dolphin bit, might that even be an instance that exemplifies that morality is pervasive outside humans in the animal kingdom? possibly I'm not fully grasping what you are getting at there.

 

I'm sorry...maybe I will try to speak in English now.....

I was not grasping at anything...only being.....

if anything, grasping for understanding......as there is none, it seems.