no worries, dude-o. now, where were we? oh yes... keep ur sentences nice and pithy if u want the lazy fuckers round here to be brainwashed. anyway, 4 someone supporting peace why the hell do u want a nuclear armed israel blah blah blah...
Alright, I'll play. Since Israels nuclear program was revealed, there have been no United Arab- Israeli wars. Israel has never nuked anyone, and deternece has made the region more stable.
i like u. ur fun :sunglasse that's true but it comes at a terrible price lodui. i'm all 4 nuclear non-proliferation myself, not just israel but all countries who have nuclear weapons. that might seem like pie in the sky stuff but we have to begin somewhere and these weapons pose an enormous threat not only to the peace but to our safety as well. helen caldicott is going around the country warning us now of the immense dangers we face today because of these weapons. i just don't think israel needs them. sometimes israel is being too paranoid 4 its own good. maybe alot of the stuff that should have been worked out of the collective psyche and system after ww2 never did, so now alot of hatred get projected towards the arabs when who they really'd like to be punishing is the germans. this is not a popular view i know.
I agree that the price of nuclear weapons is unbearable. But nuclear weapons are also pandoras box, they will never be undiscovered, and until the world is pacified under some kinda government, It's going to be nessecary for defense aginst other powers. Nuclear weapons prevented a large scale conventional war between the United States and the Soviet Union. Of course during the time of the soviet reformation 50 million people we're killed, so take that as you may. You may have a good point about Israels paranoia, but they are surrounded by hostlie neighboors, and the vieled threat of nuclear force might be more useful for defense then any degree of diplomacy. Of course, by that logic, I suppose Iran has legitmate claim to aquiring nuclear weapons, since they wouldn't be breaking any non-proliferation acts, but since the Ayatollah came into power with the phrase 'Death To America', I think keeping their program stunted would be in the wests best intrests. Either way, you have to admit the success of nuclear weapons as a detterent for Israel, China, the US, Russia, the UK, France, and India, and unfortuantly Pakistan. Pakistans nuclear capibility is a little terrifying since their current president is a general who decided the country would be better with him in charge, but even so, the wars between India, Pakistan and Bangledish killed tes of millions of people, and now they will probably never happen again. Am I rambling again? Anyway, looking at how pissed off everybody is at each other all the time, maybe deterence is better even given the horrible price a nuclear bomb, to the wars that have been prevented by them. The cooler heads only prevail if they know the cost of war is clearly not worth it.
i suppose we'll never know what wars nuclear weapons did prevent. we know about a few they nearly caused of course, but were averted at the last moment. that's the danger with them: the foolproof systems can break down, and the arsenal and its wherewithal in the ex-soviet union is old and pretty crummy now, so that's a worry. perhaps we can say that nuclear arms prevented a full scale war from occuring but smaller and more localised wars have still gone on unhindered. there's talk now of limited nuclear war, that rumsfeld is mooting. i don't know how that would work, unless u could get the agreement of the belligerents beforehand not to escalate the dispute to wider lands, which sounds highly unfeasible. anyway, i would still contend that israel is over-militarised as it is, nuclear arms or not. there's no other nation in their region who could hold a candle to them, militarily speaking. so from the pov of their neighbours israel is a danger, and u can see why they'd think that way. are her intentions imperial, they must ask themselves. which is a reasonable fear i'd say. just looking at the maps of 1948, 1967 and today u can see that israel has grown much bigger. while nuclear weapons might hold her neighbours in check they do nothing to create peace and certainty in the world. it feels to me like we're living on the knife's edge. and when the hour of maximum danger arrives we dont want nuclear weapons figuring in the calculations. and no ur not rambling btw. its pleasant 2 have a decent discussion without arguing. can i ask u lodui, are u jewish 2?
Well You're right, the US is still on a hair trigger with Russia in terms of nuclear policy. It is pretty scary, and I suppose there we're still some proxy wars happening in Afghanistan, etc... You're also right about Israels military, in '67 they might have had to worry about the Syrians and the Egyptians power, but now, Israel can hold its own, I'm not sure they need nuclear weapons, but at least Israels government is fairly stable, and they're not going to nuke Iran just for the hell of it. I think you're right about Israel not being much of a catalyst for peace either, I think it's best to have the UN try and help out with keeping peace in the West Bank because Israel is far too militaristic. And nah, I'm not Jewish, my familys Irish, and I'm an atheist.
Do you seriously think its nuclear weapons that caused this? IF israel were to ever use a nuclear weapons the U$ would have to cut off its aid to israel. Israel is really just a U$ puppet state, and it would lose access to U$ resources through ever using nuclear arms.
