Are you blind? One side being brutalised? Have you ever seeen a mother covered in blood crying for her family who was just murdered by a suicide bomber? Hows that for hand wringing... Not so one sided is it?
all of this killing is dreadful, no one's saying that it's not. the palestinians could provide u with equally appalling video footage and sound bites of suffering too. but this doesn't mean that the battle isn't one-sided. u say ur wondering how the violence can be stopped. well, the violence can be stopped when israel is disarmed. her army brutalises and terrorises her palestinian neighbours who cannot defend themselves against such state of the art weaponry except by use of the appalling tactic of suicide bombing. if u r truly sincere about wanting peace then u must understand that this will never happen whilever israel has such devastating military superiority.
Of course, I'm not the one defending either side. Israel be disarmed? Why would that halp? The West Bank became occupied by Israel after the Six Day War, in which Israel struck preemptivly after being blockaded by the united arab states, and had troops amasing on it's border. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day_war How's is that simple? Theres no clear right or wrong there, the Arab states wouldn't recognise Israels right to exist, and we're preparing for war, Israel stuck first and captured some land as a buffer zone between itself and Jordan. Using guerillas to infaltrate and murder civilians has always been the policy of the Arab states, and for years Egypt and Syria we're openly trainnig them and seding them across the border. How do you think Israel could survive today without a military? Those tensions are still there, and without a military, Israel would be helpless aginst hostile neighboors on all sides. The buffer zone of west bank has been used as a proxy war this whole time, and it was thought at the time that it was nessecary to protect themselves from future Arab invasions. This might not be true today, but its debatable. You're making the whole situation out to be much more simple then it is.
u r so. ur defending israel but ur giving us the song and dance that u want the violence to stop. the 2 don't signify. because the battle field is vastly uneven. while israel maintains such military superiority it will never in a million years seek a peaceful settlement when it can just invade and occupy to its hearts content. without nuclear weapons and a military state israel might then negotiate a settlement. then we'd have the peace u say u want. it's a favourite tactic of mossad 2. for someone who's rabbiting on about it being a two sided war u certainly are an apologist for israeli miltitarism. throw stones at palestinian children i guess.
bsr, can i ask u a q? aren't u worried that u might get drafted into the idf while ur on hoilday in israel?
I already was releasted from the IDF because of leaving 8 years outside of Israel and not visiting for over a month.
Is it easy to call hundreds of thousands of people fleeing genocide who wanted to form a state terrorists? Eh well the ones that butcher palistinean villages yes. I support palistineans right to existance and nationhood.
My verbal support of Israel would mean I don't want peace in Israel? Thats a pretty convoluted argument. Call it song and dance all you want, my only intrest in this is a resolution, I just see your proposition to be naive, and I think you only see a very small part of the volatile situation leading for you to pick a 'side'. I want Palestine to be a state, with full autonomy from Israel and the Arab states. I also see how that could be very volatile for Israel, and why their hesitant to pull out of territory captured during a war from a hostile region which didn't recognise their statehood. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L09012630.htm Israel being disarmed would be chaotic for the region, as Hamas would pour into Israel and murder as many civilians as possible. The stated mission goal of Hamas is to destroy the state of Israel, and replace whatever government that Palestine might become with Islamic theocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas How can a nation not have a military with terrorists attaking them, which the Palestinian leadership has been weary to crack down on, disarm? Where are you getting that from? Mossad has commited some covert assasinations of Hamas members, and have shot innocent people on a few occasions, to which they've been condemned by the UN, but they aren't sending in agents to murder as many Palestinians as possible. Theres not a war, theres an occupation, and I said I see both sides of the issue and support Palestinian statehood, not that I see Israeli militarism and Islamic terrorism as the same entity. The Israeli miltary has been used very brutally in the past, and there have been many reports of Israeli soldiers killing innocent people, the Israeli military is still subject to laws, and anyone who is accused of these things are court martialed. These attacks are carried out by extremists in the Israeli military, and are as horrible as any attacks on Israelis by Islamic extremists, but Israel's military does need to exist for Israeli defense. Hamas is only interested in killing as many innocent people as possible, to the end of eradicating the nation of Israel. Their also intrested in taking the freedom that could be available to the Palestinian people and setting up a wahhabist regime. Hamas is more dangerous to the Palestinian people then it is to Israel. When the withdrawl was announced it was the Israeli military who was protecting Palestinian people from right wing Israeli extremists. The Israeli military does need to run counter insurgent operations in it's De Facto territory, and until the Palestinian leadership is more willing to cackdown on Hamas, I see how Israel could be hesitant to let a Palestinian state emerge. but Palestine has lost it's strategic importance to Israel, and the ocupation is perpetuating harsh conditions for many Palestinian civilians. A Palestinian democracy should emerge for the sake of improving the lives of it's people, and to negotiate with Israel. The Israeli military should no longer occupy this territory, and once that happens, I hope peace will flurish.
see, u r so defending israel. ur not neutral. mister "Of course, I'm not the one defending either side" and advice 4 the future. keep ur propaganda nice and short if u want the lazy fuckers round here to be brainwashed.
I was using the words you put in my mouth there champ. Sorry, I'd hate for you to have to think about an issue to much. I'll try to be more concise with complicated thorny issues and just reduce it to a few cliches, as seems to be the style.
i did read it actually. that was just a debating point. i know the issue's complicated and i appreciate where u r coming from. i 2 support the right of israel to exist. 100%. i just do not, cannot, will not, support the way the israeli govt is changing israel from a civil society to a militarist/theocratic state. and i can never condone the violence committed against the palestinians, as i could never condone the suicide bombings. there's nothing wrong with good vigorous debate lodui.
Lodui, you even yourself addmited that there was an occupation, dont you see this as wrong. THis si a colonia an expalnsionist action no? I support israels right to exist but not to expand and claim more palistinean territory.
I agree, nothing wrong with good debate, I just didn't like my point to be reduced to propaganda. But politics are stupid anyway. I agree with you though, and I certainly don't support Israel's many unnesecary hostile incursions into the west bank. Let's hope this all works out.
I see the acquisition of the west bank from Jordan as being nessecary for Israeli defense in 1967. Jordan's control of the west bank had been used in the past to stage united arab attacks aginst Israel, and with Iraq, Sudan, Egypt, Kuwait, and Algeria mobolizing forces, they could have cut Israel in two in half an hour. Egypt was strangling Israel with a blockade, and mobolizing troops for a war. Israel took the west bank to ensure survival. From a diplomatic standpoint, they had no options. This doesn't mean I support the occupation today, but I see how the occupation of the west bank was in Israels immediate security intrests in 1967, and how they'd be hesitant to give it up with so many insurgent attacks on Israeli citizens. But they should withdraw, because the Palestinians deserve their own democratic state, and to hopefully ease tensions between the Israelis and Palestinians..
yes. my maternal grandmother was jewish (which technically makes me jewish 2) and i have relatives who go 2 israel alot, so it's not like i want there to be violence. i have followed this thing 4 a long time now and seen how it's got much worse, not better. imho that has to do with the way israel handles herself. it's all changed sinced rabin's gone. he was not perfect either but at least u could see a fork in the road where it looked like he would take israel down the right road, or at least in a different direction. now what we have is this fanatical likud crowd and their neo-con friends in the white house making the world safe 4 democracy and all that bullshit. oh god, ur probably a republican
Yeh, whatever, anyway, im gald we're all agreed that we wnat to see israel out of the west bank today. I dont know if it'll happen, i mean they made such a fuss over the gazza strip. and that was hardly any people.
...and the united states has donated to the tune of almost a HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS to israel, mostly in military aid other than economic. the threat from the kids on the streets throwin stones has been the major factor! and whilst israel collects economic aid from the united states, it continues to cut (and build walls) around the palestinian economy, even the bloody water! yea ..im only seein one side of this issue! i won't bother addressin your other comments
u again. if i see u i'm gonna tan ur lilly white arse and ur gonna luv it. then i'm gonna give u a rogering. and u'll love that 2. for the time being tho fuck off.
