Darren Wilson Ferguson Trial

Whether or not the hold was banned is almost irrelevant. Sure....it's worse if it was a banned hold but in any case, this was clearly excessive force regardless of the method.

As far as retraining, I was listening the NPR interview a retired NYC police officer today and he said he finds it's interesting that every time something like this happens, the police commissioner is at a podium talking about the need for more training. He said it isn't about training at all because the NYC police are one of the most highly trained police forces in the world. It's not about diversity. The NYC police force is also one of the most diverse in the world. All of the officers are trained the same way at the academy but certain tactics are deployed much more often on minorities.

I think body cameras will possibly help but won't ultimately be the answer. This last case has shown us that video footage doesn't matter. Plus, cops in my town have cameras that seem to have a habit of malfunctioning at precisely the moment they are needed most.

 

I heard an interesting discussion on NPR about the grand jury. They should have appointed a special prosecutor and not used the regular DA. The reason, DA's are elected and often count on the support of the police. Since the DA pretty much controls the proceedings and decides what evidence to present, he or she can manipulate the grand jury into whatever outcome is desired. A special prosecutor could have gone for a trial.

 

yes, this is why police officers are rarely indicted. Prosecutors often bring an indictment against them only due to political pressure but often present the facts in such a way as to assure the officer is not indicted.

 

CNN has confirmed that no choke holds of any kind are allowed by the NYPD.

 

You are correct, but this was not what they called a "choke hold". It was not meant to constrict the breathing, but to gain leverage in order to take a much bigger man down since he was resisting arrest. But when you look at it it does appear to be across the windpipe at first and then when he is on the ground it is not anymore, it is more of a head lock.

 

The coroner's report says otherwise.

 

The corner said that part of the death was because of it, all I was pointing out was that was not the purpose of what he was doing. He was not trying to choke the guy or else he would have held that same hold for the entire time.

 

BS, he was using a blood-choke, where pressure is applied to the carotid artery on the side of the neck, cutting off blood to the brain.

The popular notion put forth by law enforcement has been that this is a less dangerous choke than the windpipe choke.
In my training, I was taught the opposite.
The blood choke is very risky, and you had better let go when the guy goes limp and begin resuscitative measures unless you want to face possible homicide charges. That is, as a civilian....

 

I heard that discussion too. I think it would help a lot to have independent prosecutors in all cases involving police. I think there still might be a question of who decides if a case goes before a grand jury though.

 

The NYC protesters are showing the Ferguson protesters how it's done right. People of all racial and ethnic backgrounds, marching together. No fires, no looting, no violence. I hope they shut down the whole goddamn city. It's time for things to change.

 

Why not just stop fucking with the police? Seems like a better deal and you will walk away and be able to tell about it.

The 'hold'? Who gives a shit if that 'type' is banned or not, You do what you have to and actually a hold like that is easy to get out of and also puts the person 'the holder' in a position of loosing control. He did what he had to do and just so happens it killed a person. How many times has this 'hold' been done and resulting in NYPD deaths?

I cant see where its such a big problem to not fuck with the police. You will not win. If they did indict these officers doing their jobs, What kind of message is it sending out? Its ok to rob and assault people and business along with grand theft auto to get ya to the store to rob.

Only lowlifes commit these crimes and police have to clean up the mess. Its not like ANY of these people were 'upstanding citizens' in the least. I would have done the same thing as these officers and so would anyone else put in their position. Unless common sense waved bye bye to you long ago and would sit there and wait to see what the animal will do next.

 

The first thing is....it doesn't matter if you are an "upstanding citizen" or not. You still have rights in this country. The constitution does not make exceptions for people who are anything less than upstanding.

Secondly...you don't have to "fuck with the police" for them to fuck with you.

Third....in this NYC case, the man was clearly not acting in a threatening manner and they killed him. Plain and simple. There's no reason to even try to twist it into some cop just doing his job. Attempting to justify those actions is nothing more than being complicit and passive in the face of complete disrespect and disregard of the rights of US citizens. Again....the hold doesn't even matter...the guy was killed but even if you say it's an easy hold to get out of....sure it is...if one person is doing it but if you have 3 or 4 others holding your arms and legs and some fucking prick with his knee on your head that hold becomes slightly harder to escape and even more unjustified.

Police in this country seem to expect complete submission in every circumstance....even when they are wrong or violating your rights. If that cops tells you to suck his cock...he expects you to do it right now or be charged with interference with official acts. Sadly, too many people will just say he's doing his job and submit.

 

I agree to a point most have let their jobs go to their head and think they all 'walk tall'. But when you start robbing stores, That's a felony and you loose some 'rights'.
The 'people' will not win at this, Even though we pay their salaries. Cops will always trump the next card and to buck the system, Stupid. That puts the country in a 'police state', Where the military can come in and take over and instead of a few rowdy cops, You have a street full of AR's and bull horns. That's what Osama and his cohorts wanted after sandy hoax and the current race baiting bullshit is closing the gap.
Just like all the idiots who think laying down in the road is going to stop traffic? It might for you, But I will drive over and through the dumb bastards and who do you think the cops will side with? A productive member of society or a idiot standing in a street 'protesting'? They have that right, But not in the roads I pay to keep clear and open. They think they are going to fuck with my day, They are sadly mistaken.

 

Yup. Strangling a man for selling cigs is heavy duty but clearly legal. They didn't find any cigs on him? Oh well. i've seen a few that need strangling in my day. Some wear uniforms.

Good post mr understanding. You sound like someone from Alabama, circa 1950.

 

There are certain rights that you might lose if you're a convicted felon, such as the right to vote or possibly the right to own firearms or live in certain areas (depending on your crime). But you don't lose your civil rights no matter what crime you may have committed. And if it's justified to kill someone who committed a felony, it certainly isn't the cops job to do it and they still have a right to due process before they are killed.

 

Meanwhile, in other parts of America...

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/12/05/Another-Race-Based-Attack-In-St-Louis-Black-Thugs-Drag-Bosnian-Woman-Out-Of-Her-Car-and-Beat-Her
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/12/03/The-St-Louis-Death-No-One-Cares-About


Still, this does not rise to the level of white on black crime, for some reason.
And had this man killed someone the same way, he would have immediately been labeled a terrorist.

 

Cops can be murderers, too...only difference is is that they are on the right side of the law......but not all cops are bad, as Ari said....some really do just want to help people and rescue them.......

 

I think the media definitely picks and chooses which stories they think they can use to their benefit the most. The distinct difference between blacks killing whites, blacks killing blacks, whites killing browns, etc. is that the protests are about police killing people and police abusing their authority. The examples that I've heard people cite when saying "Where is the outrage for this persons death?" are citizens killing citizens. Not that there shouldn't be outrage but it's not exactly the same situation.

And just to play the devils advocate for a second, the media may in fact cover some stories while ignoring others but if a 10 year old white girl goes missing...it's a national story. If a 10 year old black girl goes missing....she'd be lucky to have it mentioned on her local evening news. So it can be framed as "race" but it's more about ratings.

 

The media has pimped the hell out of whatever side pays more. Always has and will only omit certain details of facts.

Whats funny IMO, The two guys who sign up for the FD and PD. The one who wants to kick ass and help goes PD, The other who wants to save lives and help chooses FD.
The guy who wants to kick down doors and 'save lives' in the PD rarely do, The FD guy does it day after day and wants no part in 'hero' status, Just a good fucking fireman.

Now if they switched jobs, The guy who signed up to kick ass gets to do so. Gets to save that life he really didn't want too, But did and is a hero in his profession.
Fireman goes to a crazy white guy with black stripes on PCP thinks he is rick james. He makes sure the area is secure from anyone other than nut job Malone and himself. The last thing on his mind is to kill, He is there to defuse and help. He will 'try' anything in his power before the .40 S&W.

Point, Both do want to help, Just wrong settings. They can screen and test for shit like this yet they don't and if the street are getting tougher they have the cop get rougher, Instead of adding too and catching.
Plenty of good honest people who live in gun fire everyday and its neighborhoods not war zones. They know how to deal with it and so they should be questioned 'what might work'. Many people who take a chance at the very bullet a cop does and or more than cops like ones in small towns who have never had to pull their piece.

But then again, Common sense would fix it and not cost us much in the long run. That's not too good a thing for the number crunchers!

 

Not quite.

If it was permitted, that would be irrelevant, that would not excuse the absolutely totally disproportionate use of unnecessary force.

However, it is not permitted, and they still are arguing that it was not a disproportionate use of force, or that it was still somehow justified - in that argument, the fact that it is never acceptable is important, it means that it is brutality (and brutality resulting in death is....?) by definition.

It should be irrelevant, but in our insane authority-fellatiating atmosphere, it's not, it's a very necessary point.