Capitalism vs. Sustainability

Ever hear Charles Manson's rant about being free? On youtube someplace, I don't have the link. He's the most heavily guarded individual in maximum security I think. No "freedom" at all, yet he laughs at the guards who think they are free and realizes that he is a totally free human being as long as his mind allows him to be...

 

Doesn't nature always manage to balance herself out? no matter what we do, the pendelum will swing back?

 

I hate to say i agree with Charles Manson, but he makes a good point. In a way, no one can lock you up.

 

Yeah... "in a way". Three very important words that kind of make all the difference in the definition of "freedom".

Does that mean you wouldn't be that bothered if you went to prison for cultivating your own crop?

Of course, you can always just top yourself, and then free your mind that way. Or you can sit and meditate 24 hours a day, and console yourself in the idea that you are sacrificing your life for the possibility of a good life next time round.

Hey, I just fell of a horse and broke my spine, and now I am paralysed from the neck down for the rest of my life. But you know, "in a way" it doesn't really matter because at least in my mind I am still free.

Let's be realistic here.

 

Well, realistically speaking, you would be mighty angry and bitter over your accident. That is understandable. And why I don't spend a lot of time riding any more. And I know all about the probs involved in growing illegal gardens, BELIEVE ME.

There are always problems in life. Some bigger and some smaller. But the freedom part is ultimately a state of mind. I had a friend, an illiterate hillbilly from one of the craziest redneck families around, whose uncle shot him for talking too long on the phone... Spent years in a wheel chair, hooked up to colostomy bag, with only drunks and crack heads to take care of him. Somebody fixed him up with a hand controlled ATV which with his limited hand use he was still able to drive, and he still fished and hunted (with a real gun) even tho his hands couldn't even really grip anything well. He eventually DIED of a morphine overdose. But I spent a good deal of time talking to him over the years, and he never once complained about his position in life, but rather felt FREE. He ACCEPTED his limitations, made the best out of what he COULD do, and was ultimately happy.

I also know from experience that it is possible to feel happy and free simply by being around others who do not. You see a bunch of negativity and you see how it effects those who are caught up in it (example, Balbus), and you start to really appreciate what you DO have, even more than you appreciated it before....

 

Well said.

Absolute freedom is something only found in dreams. And in a world of physicality one's freedoms constantly collide with another's. To me freedom is the ability to always consciously choose which direction you go in life.

I don't mean no laws, no government, no rule. But I mean freedom from my own mind. Freedom from deep psychological unwanted responses that shift my life from where I want to be to the middle of nowhere. Fears or knee-jerk reactions that keep me from being true to myself.

Because innately as humans we are pure creation power, pure passion, drive, love, knowing. It's just removing fear, doubt, anger, and laziness from our lives that make us realize our vast potential as individuals. And so instead of always blaming the outside world for all of our problems, it's usually our own personal demons that keep us from truly changing the outside. It simply takes the conscious ability to always choose the higher ground at every crossroad, and develop your life into an unconscious reflection of this mentality.

People who make vasts amounts of money will tell you that it's all about mentality. So will self-empowerment coaches or religious leaders. It's all about consciously directing your life.

 

Have you ever spent a night in the Bangkok Hilton?

Put it this way, I wouldn't go expecting a good nights sleep in there, so I've heard.

I hear that there are not enough beds, and you have to sleep in half hour shifts.

How free do you think you mind would be then?

People with vast amounts of money can afford to buy a bed far enough away from the rest of the world to get a decent nights sleep.

They can say what they fucking like.

 

My dad (ex militant) can sleep through an atomic bomb.

Some people who sleep with the nightlife symphony that daily occurs in the country ADAPT to it. You stick a city slicker in the deep boonies and they may not get good sleep for weeks due to psychological adjustment.

Me for one, I typically sleep better on the floor than I do on a bed. I've done it my whole life, and even did it while away at college at my own apartment. I also learned how to sleep past 3A.M. drunken Halo Theme song choir by my neighbors.

It's just about learning not to get pissed off when you hear something "disturbing your sleep". Instead of reacting to it, you just let it become a part of you.

It is what it is though. There's no such thing as absolute freedom. Back in the day of fortified cities you may of been able to grow weed, but your entire existence was the city. You may have untold freedom deep in the Bush, but you may not have the resources to accomplish your dream.

Me. I am a pretty empowered individual if I do say so myself. I'm comfortable with the things I can't change, and I definately know how to change the things I can.

I've dealt with over 9 straight months (just now getting normal) of chronic illness. Internal bleeding, flu's, internal candida, sinus infection, everyday headbreaking sinus pressure. When come back from being so sick that it's hard for you to talk, you learn to appreciate the little things like breathing through your nose. I'm always happy now and put my energy focusing on things that I can change in my life instead of focusing on things that I can't. It makes all the difference.

 

Most people could sleep through one of them, and probably never wake up.

Could he sleep through a psychotic drug addict with AIDS, who wanted his half an hour turn on the bed he was lying?

Me too. I've been doing this for about 7 years since I got back from India. But the problems is I live in a semi-detached house made of cardboard in a noisy suburb. So anything that happens, reverberates through the floor and wakes me up.

Doesn't do my dream time any good I can tell you.

I find that smoking herbals can help with that. But you see, we're not allowed to do that in this country.

Maybe I wouldn't have any dreams, just the safety and comfort of a mud hut, and a woman, maybe a big pot of soup round a fire most days would probably be enough to keep me happy. Why would I need dreams if my life was that simple, and my mind was free.

I had the same thing, I suffered from occupational rhinitis, or sinitus or something all because of I had to spend my summer in a dusty factory. I never thought I would get over it at one point, but eventually I did.

 

All I"m saying is that there's always options. Not that the system can't work against you, but there are options. You can work long enough to become a bum in a nice neighborhood. Go talk to churches to see if they can help set you up (some of my local churches help people out). Go wwoofing.

Sure society isn't perfect, but nature isn't perfect either. As rough as things are under the "man's" control I'll be damned if I go out into the wilderness and try to survive on my own. Would it be nice if a marijuana and "hemp" were legal? Hell yah!! But that's our job as citizens in this system is to try and change it. And as a citizen living here I have never seen anyone walk up to my door and offer to talk to me about legalizing marijuana so obviously the fire isn't big enough to really get enough people to take real action.

I'm happily content burning fossil fuels to debate back and forth with you guys. Until I come up with an existence so much more beautiful where I won't need you guys (hah^^) for ideas and growth I'll gladly settle with this reality.

To me it's just about evolution. You gotta be happy where you're at, but know where you want to go.

 

And I see that you need own nothing but a change of clothes, a couple blankets, maybe a tent, maybe not. There ARE places in THIS country where a person could simply disappear into the woods and live comfortably without anyone knowing of their presence. I expect it happens quite often, we just don't hear about it too much. I have half a notion to try it myself before I hit 65.....Like to do at least a year that way... And I'm certain I can accomplish that. No intention of totally"living off the wild" however, as I don't see that as being necessary. Many tribal societies were Farmers as well as hunter gatherers, and it simply does not take THAT much food for one person to eat....

 

Oh yea, and screw a bunch of pot laws. In MY MIND it's OK to consume it, and so I make it so. I can consume pot so far away from this civilization that no cop is ever gonna know nor care... I make it "legal" in MY world. I just try to stay as far from the OTHER world as possible so I don't bother anyone.

 

Exacto! All life as we know it is mind. The concepts in our minds that are attached to roads, cities, laws, zoning laws, street lights, whatever. I've done more than smoke for the last 2 years tons of times without any interference because I understand the system. Unless you're riding in a junk hoopdie with all ur lights broken you could pretty much drive all around your city with pounds in your car and not get caught. All you gotta do is know your laws and how to get around them. In Ohio I think anything less than 100g (a little less than a quarter pound) is just a ticket (no record). That's about $350 wholesale to over $2000 retail where I live.
And it gets done hourly and safely 365 around me even though there are "laws".

I was walking in Columbus, Ohio during an Ohio State football weekend and there was a guy casually walking down the street smoking a blunt!! You could smell that thing from a mile away and the sidewalks were JAM packed but nobody even cared.

I hear squatting in Hawaii is pretty easy. There's also people in the Alaskan Bush (on this forum) who have offered FREE land to anybody wanting to basically homestead up there. He would even help you get set up and teach you the ropes.

 

It's not so easy to just disappear into the wilderness in scotland, well it is in the Highlands, but you really are up against the elements there. There's plenty of water, but really not much else to sustain yourself. I'd seriously be playing Chistopher McCandless if I was to do that!

I do try to think positively and stuff, recently it has been coming together a bit better in my life as well, so don't take my comments in a way that you think I don't understand the freedom that pure mind can give, I'm just thinking about the practicality of it all.

Everyday is about me trying to focus my thoughts positively, but there always something that comes along and fucks it up for me, and money is always at the bottom of it.

This is why I fully believe that capitalism is at the bottom of all the problems in the world, and I know that the system can work without it. To do so people really have to change their way of thinking, become less competitive and live more spiritual lives.

This doesn't have to involve sitting around a fire chanting, maybe sitting round a fire, but it doesn't need to be about hare hare krishna, or buddha or jesus, just an appreciation of the beauty of life.

All you need is love. pa pa pa pa pa etc...

 

But capitalism can work with love too. I can make a profit and use that profit in benevolent ways. So I say again that capitalism is just a bad gateway for greed, just like any other economic or political system that can be corrupted.

There is no freedom, only freedom within a system. Capitalists use money to realize their dreams. Naturalists may use nature's balance. Monastaries may work off of love. Each system has limits though.

Im' a bit younger than you so it's easier to build up my life instead of bulldozing yours. But I look at everything as a system. You would be surprised how much money you can save within this system if you just get a couple of buddies together and buy in bulk, or shop at foreign food stores.

I mean, what's REALLY holding you back? Wife n kids? Bills? Debt? Why did you get into those things in the first place? Did your life revelation happen past the "point of no return"?

 

That's what I said!

Some systems impinge heavily on others, in fact capitalism pretty much tries to monopolise them all, hence all the problems we are facing.

I employ every money saving scheme I can, how do you think I survive?

Lack of money at the moment.

In order to acquire money to live, I have to work, and I don't get much say in what I do, in fact if I have work, then I have to be grateful that I have it, even if I hate it and it makes me ill.

 

I feel ya man. Where there's a will there's a way.

Capitalism vs. Sustainability? I'd say more like Ignorance vs. sustainability.

I think the biggest problem is lack of local. People want fish in the desert, beef by the ocean, and everything in between.

We simply need to eat locally what flourishes naturally. Not cows, chickens, and pork all the time but things like deer, squirrel, and rabbit. As much as I love shrimp and scallops I think that I can learn to give up those things for the greater good.

 

is prince charles willing to give up his capitalistic standings in the world?? E.G PRINCE.

also is the entire royal family and government willing to give up their capitalistic position in the ladder? and all the rich people?? IF SO .. COUNT ME IN.

if not .. everything he says is completely rubbish and is completely void.

 

I would wish that HRH The Prince of Wales could put his prestige on the line to calm things in Ulster province.

Green posturing is so easy.

 

True. What most people seem to overlook is that the easiest path to sustainability is to reduce consumption, yet privileged people like the Prince of Whales and Al Gore, who preach about the subject, are often the biggest consumers. Even if they've got solar panels and wind mills to power their homes, the inconvenient truth is that the resources that went into manufacturing the solar panels and wind mills may offset the benefit, particularly when they need more equipment than most people to support their higher demands.

I agree a local economy is most sustainable, minimizing the resources required to transport goods and services, yet another argument against globalization.