Can guns save you from suppression?

The only thing that can save you from suppression, is standing up for yourself, and I haven't seen many gun owners doing that about anything but retaining their gun owning rights.

 

Oh I see, so you think that the only people who are pro-gun are people who support government in general? Is that correct then? Well, I can't speak for everyone because I'm just me. But I am pro-gun (to an extent people, calm down) and I do not trust the government (either "party") in the least bit. And I'm most open to progressive ideas. Lay some on me. I'd very much LOVE to limit the power and influence of the government; especially the redistribution of wealth. And I'm often seen as "anti-American", and I frankly don't care. I still don't know if this is what you are talking about or not, but this is what I got out of it.

I want change, but unfortunately I don't really believe that we can create change by "voting". I think that is a scam that the government is using to make people think they matter. This goes back to the power and influence of the government again. I'm far too cynical to believe that I can make a difference or that even as a group of citizens we can make a difference. I don't know what else to say. I am not being apathetic, I have protested and voiced my opinion where ever I can, I've tried to explain things to people rationally. I haven't given up, but I'm also not at a point in my life where I am willing to throw everything I've worked for away and start a revolution that may or may not work. I think about society a lot and I wish there were more ways I can help. I think I've chosen the right path as far as being able to at least do my part.

Balbus, this isn't just directed to you, but to most of the people here just in general. Statements like this and thoughts like this really piss me off. This is exactly why I left this forum. I left because no one here could understand or accept my becoming a cop. I was all well and good when I worked retail but now I'm the enemy. And everyone has jumped to conclusions about me.

If for one moment someone is going to imply that by enforcing the laws that are in place (whether I agree with them or not is most certainly not the point) that I am somehow contributing to the problem, then I am going to get pissed about it.

I believe there are severe flaws with the system currently in place, and that there always have been and there always will be. THAT was the point I was trying to make. I work EXTREMELY hard to change things where I can. I would love for drug laws to be changed, and provide universal healthcare. That shit is expensive and I could use some help myself! I would love for everyone to be able to make a fair wage so those who steal and kill can stop using that as an excuse. I would love for those who actually commit crimes to be punished to the fullest extent of the law and not just get a slap on the wrist, and for those who have done very little (in my opinion) to not have such harsh sentences. I would love for juries to be fair, and all defense attorneys make the same amount of money so rich little white boys can't get off on charges, while poor ethnic kids go to jail. I would love for this country to be perfect!

But again, like I've stated. I am only one human, with only one life, and only the gifts I was given. I know for a fact that as a law enforcement officer I will make a difference in someone's life. And only one person is who I need to touch in order for me to feel as if my life has purpose. The police would absolutely love to be here simply to keep the peace, but until this country is structured that way, the police will do their jobs as they do today. So don't dare imply in any way that the police are all part of the system and we are all for the government and pro stupid laws and want to suppress society. Some do want to help in whatever capacity that they can.

I agree with your points - let society deal with these problems and change the laws. But adding to the laws by creating some sort of gun ban is only going to make police arrest more people and clog up the system even more. why doesn't anyone get this? Prohibition does not work. And how can creating more laws (regarding guns) help change the laws we already have on prostitution, gambling, drug deals, etc.?

When the dealers and prostitues show up in your neighborhoods, and break in to your house, don't worry I won't arrest them and put them through this horribly flawed system, for that is for society to correct. I'll drive by and offer them some counselling and a job applicatoin for McDonalds.

I am not planning to be selfish and live just for me. I am planning to put my life on the line every single day in order to help these people who don't even want my help to begin with and look at me as if I am the enemy. But I have given up the idealistic notion that we could ever just rise up and vote the wrong people out of office and the right people in. And that once we do everything will be peachy keen and everyone will be one big happy family and everything will work out perfectly just like we want it. There isn't any such thing.

 

Actually, Rat, I thought you were a Libertarian too, you did talk about it a lot at one point. Not that I really care what you are, hell I don't even care what I am right now. I can't figure it all out. I just deal with issues as they come up. But you might want to put your money where your mouth is and explain some things. You might not. Money is dirty hehehe. I'd like to know how you don't like anything. I mean you say you don't like the government or the alternatives, so then what do you like? If you got a good plan I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

Balbus, maybe he changed his mind. Not so bad is it? I mean isn't that why everyone comes here to argue; they want to change everyone else's mind. (at least that is my opinion as to why people come here).

See, I'm creating peace already. I will be the "hipforums peace officer". Cept I probably shouldn't have so many margaritas on the job.

 

I make it more than clear what my beliefs are, so therefore I don't feel any need to pin a silly label on myself. It's meaningless because my views are my own. Not the views of any political party or magazine or idealogue. A lot of people feel they need to mold their views around a certain ideology, and this is why we're in the situation we're in, because people listen to talking points that have been marketed to them, that they think they identify with and then regurgitate as if they're their own. They never consciously think about the system they were born into and how it's completely artificial, or how their opinions are marketed to them. They simply accept it as natural because they believe it is, as it's the only way they've known. All labels and all political ideologies are administered from the top. One of the biggest cons, along with money and religion, is politics, and to think politics are in any way real is to not understand the system you're living under. To think you're going to vote the right guy into office and he will do everything people should already be doing themselves is a con. Politics are a con game and were designed strictly for the public. At the top there are no sides or political parties, because the people who run this system control ALL sides. I see beyond politics, so therefore why would I want to identify myself using political terminology? Why would any free-thinking individual want to indentify themselves with anything other than their own thoughts and ideas?

I understand I might have referred to myself loosely as a libertarian in the past, but that was then and this is now. Now, I have no need for these ridiculous and artificial labels, and I have little tolerance for people who feel they need to cling to labels to show who they are.

Libertarians believe in small government, but they believe that capitalism and the free market (which is another con) is the route to their salvation. It's just another part of the control system, because why would anyone allow a select few people to print money out of nothing, determine its worth, then use that money to control the many? Because that is what money has always been about: control. That's why the money system -- the capitalist system -- is a very inhumane system... because everything revolves around money, which is nothing more than worthless paper, that only has worth in a figurative sense because the people who print that money say it does. People starve and die because of a lack of worthless paper money that is only useful because the people who print that money say it is. It is a CON!

You asked what my alternative would be, and I don't have a clear or fully developed idea of what that would be. But it would have to be something entirely different from the system we are living under now. It would require people abandoning the towns and cities and going back to nature. People would live in small communities where they would grow their own food, chop their own wood, and barter for goods and services. It would be similar to a TRIBAL system, where people would govern themselves and be self-reliant -- not rely on corrupt corporations and predatory government, believing it's their good shepherd and is there to serve and protect them.

I understand this sounds far-fetched to most people, and in some ways it probably is when you consider the way people are living now and have been conditioned. But like I said before, the only alternatives people see are the ones given to them from the top. Yet many of these alternatives are not alternatives at all. Some people will claim what we need is a socialist government, so the government can watch over everyone and be their daddy (which is essentially what we already have). Others say we need a libertarian form of government, where the government will play only a limited role and we can embrace free-market capitalism as our new God and the solution to all life's problems.

 

Rat

I make it more than clear what my beliefs are,

Not that I know of, please show me where you do this?

so therefore I don't feel any need to pin a silly label on myself.

It's meaningless because my views are my own. Not the views of any political party or magazine or idealogue.

I agree but I’m willing to give my views and try and explain them – where do you do that?

I see beyond politics, so therefore why would I want to identify myself using political terminology? Why would any free-thinking individual want to indentify themselves with anything other than their own thoughts and ideas?

So what are your thoughts and ideas then? Please explain them?

I understand I might have referred to myself loosely as a libertarian in the past, but that was then and this is now. Now, I have no need for these ridiculous and artificial labels, and I have little tolerance for people who feel they need to cling to labels to show who they are.

As I’ve told you many times people are very free to change their minds, but as I’ve also pointed out for a long time after you stopped saying you were a libertarian you seemed to carry on espousing libertarian views.

If that has changed please explain what views you have now?


Libertarians believe in small government, but they believe that capitalism and the free market (which is another con) is the route to their salvation. It's just another part of the control system, because why would anyone allow a select few people to print money out of nothing, determine its worth, then use that money to control the many? Because that is what money has always been about: control. That's why the money system -- the capitalist system -- is a very inhumane system... because everything revolves around money, which is nothing more than worthless paper, that only has worth in a figurative sense because the people who print that money say it does. People starve and die because of a lack of worthless paper money that is only useful because the people who print that money say it is. It is a CON!

So what would your system be like?

You asked what my alternative would be, and I don't have a clear or fully developed idea of what that would be.

So you don’t know, you bitch about stuff but you haven’t a clues as to what to do?

**

And then at last we seemed to be getting to something –

it would have to be something entirely different from the system we are living under now.

It would require people abandoning the towns and cities and going back to nature.

How?

Where is the land for these people to come from?

Is there to be a redistribution of the land?

People would live in small communities where they would grow their own food, chop their own wood, and barter for goods and services.

Are you recommending a return to subsistence farming and do you realise how hard and fragile that can be? What about those that don’t want to be farmers?

If people used wood for there heating and cooking the whole of the US would be treeless in only a few years, and the environmental impact would be horrendous.

As to barter what are they going to barter?

It would be similar to a TRIBAL system, where people would govern themselves and be self-reliant -- not rely on corrupt corporations and predatory government, believing it's their good shepherd and is there to serve and protect them.

So how are these tribes to be organised, who decides in disputes, over such things as land and resources etc? Who chooses the people who decide?

**

 

Cute

Oh I see, so you think that the only people who are pro-gun are people who support government in general?

The political establishment is not the government although many in government might be of the political establishment. It is not about any particular administration, party or figurehead. It is about established wealth, power and influence and what is seen as the protection of that wealth, power, and influence. It is not a conspiracy it is a way of thinking, a political perspective.

And that political viewpoint is on the whole politically right wing in nature.

**

I think you are being ‘scammed’ by the ‘scammers’.

It very much suits many in the establishment to convince people that ‘government’ is a scam and not worth supporting.

They have set up many think tanks and spent millions trying to instil that message.

Why?

Because they have an alternative to ‘government interference’ – the free market.

Government’s role would be reduced its powers to curb the rich and influential curtailed and the elite’s wealth, power and influence would be vastly increased.

As Churchill once said ‘Democracy might not be the best system but it’s better than the alternatives’

As I see it the problem is that the US political system is not working the way it should but rather than giving up on government and allowing the elite to just assume power I’d prefer to try and make the government again work for the people.

**

I’m not saying that you are the enemy or the police are the problem, far from it.

As I make very clear “The police are there to keep the peace not deal with failures in the social, economic and political structure”

As far as I’m concerned every time the police have to make an arrest society has failed.

**

But again, like I've stated. I am only one human, with only one life, and only the gifts I was given.

Again this is my point you want change but don’t think that change will come through political means so you are giving up on that and just trying to do things as an individual.

But that’s my point, only by joining together as a community will people have the power to overcome the rich and powerful elite.

As soon as someone breaks out on their own they become more powerful.

**

I agree with your points - let society deal with these problems and change the laws. But adding to the laws by creating some sort of gun ban is only going to make police arrest more people and clog up the system even more. why doesn't anyone get this? Prohibition does not work. And how can creating more laws (regarding guns) help change the laws we already have on prostitution, gambling, drug deals, etc.?

I think you are missing my point I’m not calling for a gun ban, for me people need to feel secure and only once they do will they stop feeling threatened and then they are likely to stop feeling they need guns for protection.

The question then is what can we do to make people feel secure?

As I’ve pointed out many times the situation needs a holistic approach of which only a part would involve gun regulation.

The gun regulation element would be aimed at trying to reduce harm by trying to stop guns getting into the hands of people that might do damage with them. Such things as mandatory gun safes, so people’s guns would be less likely to be stolen or get into the hands of children and mandatory psychological testing to try and weed out those with emotional and mental problems.

But at the same time as I’ve outlined I would try and make peoples lives more attractive, comfortable and worthwhile so people have more to loose from transgressing and are not likely to experience the intensity of stress that might make them act in a destructive manner.

**

When the dealers and prostitues show up in your neighborhoods, and break in to your house, don't worry I won't arrest them and put them through this horribly flawed system, for that is for society to correct. I'll drive by and offer them some counselling and a job applicatoin for McDonalds.

They are in my neighbourhood and in my life I’ve lived on estates and areas were it went on very damned close. I have been burgled and mugged in my life. I’ve known criminals and police officers.

So why are you being so glib with me here? As I’ve said I’m not against the enforcement of laws, but I do think the policies behind many laws is flawed and would wish to change them as well as the laws.

Have you actually read my proposals?

**

I have given up the idealistic notion that we could ever just rise up and vote the wrong people out of office and the right people in.

This is exactly what the political establishment want.

**

 

Balbus,

Why would more government lead to curbing the power of the rich and influential (the Elite), when it's these people who run the government for their own agenda? The more power the government has, the more power the corporations have and vice versa. This is because big government works for, and is completely owned by the multinational corporations and central banks. You don't understand that government is just a tool of this Elite. You think the government exists to protect you from the people who run that government. That is laughable in its gullibility and makes absolutely NO sense at all. Government is bigger than ever, yet has your beloved government done anything to curb globalism? No, they haven't. It's worse than ever, because the government and the corporations are one and the same. That's called corporatism, which is just another word for fascism. This is what you seem to advocate.

You will never have a clue unless you wake up and realize that governments do not exist to serve the people they lord over, nor have they ever. The government is not your daddy. The purpose of the government is to keep the many at the bottom in line and paying their taxes so the few at the top can continue to live in the utmost luxury.

You think you NEED the government. There is no bigger slave than one who cannot depend on himself, but most depend on parasitic bureaucrats to do everything for him. Humanity needs these people like the field mouse needs the hawk.

 

Balbus cannot understand that the entire system is corrupt from the top down, and is beyond saving. Nor is it worth saving. He thinks that if we just vote in the right guy who says all the right things on camera, and has a nice smile and hair, then everything will be all right. Balbus cannot envision a system other than the one he lives under, which he thinks is normal because it's the only way he's known. This is why he becomes frustrated when people talk about things that exist outside of his realm of understanding. He is unwilling and unable to give up what is familiar to him, much like a baby giving up his or her blankie.

But this doesn't just apply to Balbus. It applies to just about everyone.

There is a new, troubling religion starting to emerge, and that is state worship. This, coupled with Gaia worship (or earth worship), is the new state religion of the new age to replace Christianity, as another way to hoodwink and control the people. This is shared by both liberals and conservatives under different guises. Both are equally socialistic as both depend on the government running each individual's life in exchange for something they see as beneficial to them (while they shell out half their income in taxes). While the typical conservative belives the government exists to protect him from those "evil doers over there," and will willingly relinquish whatever freedoms he has left in the name of protection... the same can be said with the average liberal, who believes the government serves to make sure he's properly fed, is well cared for by big-pharma, and that his children are properly indoctrinated by the state. So this is why Left or Right... it's all the same thing as the outcomes are both the same, which in centralized power and control by the few over the many.

Balbus expects me to have all the answers. Unlike him, I am not an idealist, nor do I pretend to be one. All I know is that the current system does not work, it has never worked, and how or why would you attempt to save something that is corrupt from the top down?

I don't have any proposals for anyone because I am not a dictator and I don't believe in lording over people, as Balbus believes the government exists to do. A new system would require enough people waking up and realizing the current system doesn't work. It would require people coming together and creating a completely new system on their own. It wouldn't require leaders leading others like sheep, because for once people would finally be united and on common ground. I am not speaking of the kind of "unity" the globalists talk about, either, which isn't unity at all.

 

A gun isn't going to save you if you aren't clear on what exactly you are protecting. Sure own a gun feel like a big man, that doesn't mean you will ever use it or protect your rights or your family. You'll step back in the shadows with that big bad gun clutched in your hand and watch the bad stuff happen. But if it makes you feel more like a man...let's protect that right.

 

Rat

Well in these rants there certainly was a lot of hot air but sadly little substance. And not one of my questions or criticisms got answered.

I don’t expect you to have all the answers but I’d expect you to have at least something, some answers, some realistic alternatives to any of the many, many things you are against.

But alas it seems no, you don’t have any, you don’t have a clue.

Both the left and right are socialists so there has to be a new system, but what new system, everyone going off to be subsistence farmers? How is that a new system or a desirable one?

A system where people have to depend on themselves? Sounds a lot like some type of Social Darwinism, where everyone has to compete as individuals against other individuals to gain the resources they need to live and where the sick, infirm or the old are left uncared for.

And why do you seemingly lavish such praise on Ron Paul, do you think he is in favour of such things?

 

the only thing a gun gives you is an opportunity to go out in a blaze of glory.

to some this is important. maybe everything.

i'm not one of them.

i don't give a rat about glory. only about the kind of world i'd rather be living in.
and that is less about playing lip service to ANY idiology, then about encouragining intillect and creativity and the AVOIDANCE of causing suffering and harm.

guns and money are essentially boring, and cars are way too expensive for something that falls appart as quickly as they do and are constantly doing so.

=^^=
.../\...

 

No, the REAL social darwinists are the controllers at the top -- many of whom quite literally see themselves as gods, while the rest of humanity as cattle. You believe in the idea of parasitic bureaucracies "helping" society, instead of people helping each other. Again, you fail to see government as anything but a good shepherd, while at the same time the people behind these governments are working towards your demise.

But I DON'T lavish praise on Ron Paul. I think he is probably genuine in his intent, but I don't plan on voting for him because I don't vote. For me to vote would have to mean I believe in this system when politics are a scam from top to bottom. It's the people who run this system -- not the voters -- who determine who gets elected and what they will do once they are in office.

 

Damn, I wrote something very similar in a politics class, talking about my ideal system last spring and got a 3/10.

Oh well.