Bible Questions?

I have a question about the Bible:

How did God set up the plan that Cyrus carried out? How does he ensure His plans? In other words, Cyrus the great was called a shepard and an instrument for God's plan. Did God make him in a certain way to ensure that the plan would be carried out or is there more to it than this?

There were so many things that could have went wrong. How is something like that accomplished?

(Isaiah 47:1-15)

 

That's assuming we get the thoughts of God right. I don't believe the stuff OWB is handing out about 1000 year old people and talking snakes are really the thoughts of God. One might as well believe animals could talk in ancient Greece because Aesop said they could and he was a wise man.

 

Why the jab with; "If you want to believe you didn't start out wanting to believe the Bible but it passed every test, go right ahead."

Oh well, how do you know that the tests that I put the Bible to would work for you? Maybe each person has to come up with their own tests for the Bible before they are convinced.

 

True, but that's assuming that the epistemology behind modern day science is right and whether or not it is possible for talking animals to exist or have existed at one point. We can go back to the 'maybes', but I personally like maybes. Besides, I believe there is a lot more to prove the Bible as the word of God than maybes.

I think there is a lot more to the Bible than Aesop's fables. There is a lot more to prove divine origins of the Bible than proving divine origins from Aesop. Actually, did Aesop ever claim any divinity?

What I mean to say is that Aesop's fables and the richness of the Bible cannot really compare. At least that's how I see it anyway.

 

I never said I don't respect science, I just don't trust it.

Yes, your logic is correct, my thoughts are man's thoughts and I have to deal with that. That is why I try to let the Bible explain it's self as much as possible.

 

This question begs other questions: did God set up the plan that Cyrus carried out? Or did He simply provide general guidance? He chooses a Zoroastrian king to carry out His will "so that from the rising sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me."( Isaiah 45:5-6). Cyrus' assignment (Isaiah 44:28; 45:13; 48:14-15) was: to free the Jews from Babylonian captivity; help restore Jerusalem; lay the foundations of the temple; and punish Babylon. Mission accomplished.

 

The "stuff" OWB is handing out is what the Bible says no more no less. I ask you does the Bible say there were people that lived over 900 years? Did the Bible say a Snake spoke to Eve? Now you can say what you want about, oh that's not what it means but the simple truth is that is what it says.

I don't believe that Aesop ever claimed what he was writing was the word of God.

 

. Yes, no matter how we slice it, we can't get away from assumptions.

No, and nobody would have taken him seriously if he did. I think, however, that some parts of the Bible, like the Genesis story, are in the same boat, and are conveying non-literal truths in the same manner. That was my point.

I'd agree with that.

 

I'm glad you asked that. Why do you consider it to be a "jab"?

Maybe so. Are you saying that's the case? Are you keeping them to yourself?

 

Yes it does, in an allegory.

No he didn't. if he had, would you believe him?

 

Because I told you that I didn't start out wanting to believe the Bible and you said "if that is what you want to believe" which indicates that you believe I was lying to you about my life. Implying that I was lying to you just seems like a bit of a "jab" to me.

Maybe so.

 

uuuuuuh like yeah baby *wheeze* ... ummm i think i have a question, but like i fotrgot what it waz maaahn! *sucks another bong hit*
OH yeaH! Uhhh like I remembered! *big smile*
Damn! then i forgot again
OH YEAH!

Ummm OK , like, heres my bible question:

If joe didnt bang mary then why does mathew spend a page and a half trying to trace yashuwah's geneology thru joe, who is a serogate stepfather?

Ohhhh shoooot man:
Uummmm likw wow baby I just remebered another groooovy question.
Nawww ... geeze i forgot it brother.
*draws another serious bong hit*

Like yeah ... now i remember!

How come Moses gets to deliver the commandment:
"Thou shalt not Kill" .... when 'he' was banished from Egypt for murder?

Is that kinna like "those who cant DO Teach?


****smoooookes a reaaallly long hit*****
shoot while were at it heres a list of questions:

ready?


QUESTIONS OF THE BIBLE
(and CHURCH)

#1)- In Genesis the GODS CREATE THE PLANTS BEFORE CREATING THE SUN AND THE MOON, without which they cannot survive, some plants could not even go one day without sunlight
-(Gen. 1:11, 1:16).
#2)- The Book of Matthew spends an entire chapter tracing the genealogy (ANCESTRY) OF CHRIST from King David all the way to Joseph, it then goes on to tell us that Joseph did not copulate with Mary making him only a surrogate STEPFATHER to Jesus and the whole chapter a waste of the readers time. This also brings into question whether or not Jesus was even a true Jew. Clearly Mary’s father (Zechariah) was a Jew but what tribe does the “HOLY GHOST” belong to -(Mat. 1:16, 1:23, 1:25).
#3)- HEROD COMES BACK TO LIFE from the dead after Jesus, Mary, and Joseph return from Egypt (Mat. 2:13, 2:19). John the Baptist’s head is presented to Herod on a platter, long after Herod’s death.
#4)- Paul wrote that “LONG-HAIR” is shameful for a man, though this was the vow of a Nazarite Priests who were “HOLY TO GOD”
-(Num. 6:5, Sam. 1:11, Jud. 13:15, Vs. 1st. Cor. 11:14).
#5)- Paul said a man must “WORK TO EAT” Jesus said “EAT BY FAITH” - “Look at the lilies and the birds who do not toil”
-(2nd Theo. 3:18-12. Mat. 6:24-34, Luke 12:22-32).
#6)- Jesus is “THE PRINCE OF PEACE” but says he came to bring a division and “A SWORD” (Mat. 10:34-7, John 2 ;14-16, Luke 22:36). One of Jesus’ last instructions to his Apostles was to buy a sword. Moses referred to God as “A MAN OF WAR” (Ex. 15:3). Jesus assaults merchants at the temple, and the Apostles kIll through prayer.
JESUS AND PETER USE VIOLENCE -(John 2:14-16, 18:1, 18:10, 18:26, Mat. 21:12, 26:5, 10:34-37, Luke 22:36, Acts 5:5, 5:10). APOSTLES USE PRAYER TO KILL: (Acts 5:5, 5:10).
Jesus was likely executed for his ASSAULT AT THE TEMPLE John 2:14-16, 2:26).
#7)- MEN OF GOD LIE/DECEIVE!!! (Abraham- said Sarah was not his wife causing others to desire her, Jacob- and his mother deceived Isaac to steal his birthright). (????)
#8)- REINCARNATION; Paul says it is appointed once to live to and die (Heb. 9:27). Jesus says some will not die- Mat 16:28, Elijah and Enoch taken to heaven without dying - (Heb. 11:5),
Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah reincarnated. (Mat. 17:11-13, 3:3, 11:14-15, Luke 1:17, Mark 9-11, John 1:21, 1K. 17:5, 2K. 1;8)
#9)- Jesus says “The least in heaven is GREATER THAN JOHN THE BAPTIST” after he was beheaded for the witness of Christ. -(Mat 11:11, Luke 7:28) Then says those who are martyred for his namesake will inherit heaven.
#10)- THE BOOKS OF MOSES COULD NOT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY MOSES, how did Moses write that no one knows where he is buried
(Deut. 34:16).
#11)- BAD KARMA; Jesus says “As you sow so shall you reap”. What did Jesus and his Apostles do to deserve crucifixion? This implies that bad things don’t happen to good people, who incidentally make the best targets for the corrupt (Mat. ???).
#12)- GOVERNMENTS ARE ORDAINED BY GOD, writes Paul. What about Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin? (Rom. 13:1).
#13)- Contradictory accounts are given as to whether the Apostles were sent out in SANDALS OR BAREFOOT -(Mat.10:10, Mark 6:8, Luke 22:35).
#14)- The Bible states that JESUS WAS GOD’S ONLY SON
(Heb, 1:4-5), yet God had other sons (direct offspring) Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Ariel, etc. who were created equal to Emanuel.
#15)- JESUS SAYS HE WON’T CHANGE ANY LAWS, then he changes laws (Mat. 5:17, 5:39, 5:34).
#15- Jesus says “DO NOT RESIST EVIL”. Is he working for God or Satan? Who working for God would teach not to resist corruption?
-(Mat 5:39, Luke 6:29).
#17)- IS JESUS LUCIFER? Jesus says he is the “Morning-Star”
(Rev. 22:16) Isaiah says Lucifer is the “Morning Star” (Is. 14:12),
Jesus says he planted the seed of man on this planet, Lucifer was chief of the Elohim at the time they created Mankind.
#18)- God commands the Israelites saying “THOU SHALT NOT KILL”, then sends them to commit war-crimes like the GENOCIDE AT JERICHO (Josh 5:21)-(Ex. 20:13) in which he commands that even women, children, pets and livestock be exterminated.
#19)- NOAH’S ARK won’t hold 2 of every specie (see dimensions of the ark)- (Gen. 6:15). How did South American animals get saved?
#20)- God says “VENGEANCE IS MINE” which teaches people that they must simply tolerate corruption and abuse rather than implement justice -(Rom. 12:19, Heb. 10:30, Luke 6:29, Mat. 5:39) (days of vengeance; Luke 21:22).
#21)- The Bible teaches that men are “SAVED BY HEARING THE WORD”. What about the deaf, dumb and blind people with God given disabilities, are they then condemned ?
#22)- How do we know whether or not the Bible really is God’s word or IF THE DEVIL WROTE/ALTERED THE BIBLE? (Rev. 22:18)- Revelation warns that any who change the Biblical text will suffer the 7 plagues, but here the Devil has nothing to lose, being already condemned to hell.
#23)- God destroys the righteous with the wicked: (Ez. 21:13, Gen. 18:23).
#24)- Jesus says “Call no man father” (???) Yet the very word “POPE” MEANS “PAPA”.
#25)- Jesus and APOSTLES STEAL corn: (Mat 12:1, Luke 6:1).
#26)- “NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN GOD” says the Bible (John 1:18,6:46) but then it also says that Adam, Enoch, Elijah, Moses, Christ and others did see God.
#27)- Jesus says PETER IS THE ROCK, The foundation of his church, but also calls Peter Satan 3 times (Mat. 16:23, Mark. 8:33, Luke. 4:8), (???, ??????), also Peter denies that he even knows Jesus 3 times (Luke 22:55-62), he then demands to be crucified upside-down declaring he is NOT WORTHY of Christ.
#28)- The accounts of JUDAS’S DEATH conflict each other, in The Book of Acts he burst asunder and his bowels gushed out, while in Matthew’s account he hanged himself. Clearly both cannot be true. -(Acts 1:18, Mat. 27:5).
#29)- JESUS CURSES A TREE for not having fruit to eat (Mat. 21:10) does this not show disrespect for God who created this tree.
#30)- WOMEN IN THE CHURCH are not to speak, teach or to pray with their heads uncovered
(1st Cor. 11:3, 14:3, 1st Tim. 2:9-15, Eph. 5:22-24).
#31)- HOMOSEXUALS are not allowed in the Church (Rom. 1;26-32, Lev. 18:22).
#32)- Churches teach that OTHER RELIGIONS ARE FORBIDDEN, yet Jesus himself obviously knows both Egyptian and Greek religions, making reference to Apollyon/Abaddon -(Rev. 9:11).
#33) -JESUS AND MOSES USED DRUGS (MANNA) Exodus Ch. 16, Num. 11:6-9, Deut. 8:3 & 8:16, Josh. 5:12, Neh. 9:20, Ps. 78:24, (Dan. 5:3-5 with Ex. 16:32 and Heb. 9:4), St. Jn. 6:31,6:49 & 6:58, Heb. 9:4, Rev. 2:17, SEKHEM; Gen. 12:6, possibly- (1st K 17:6) -(see MANNA CHAPTER). Henry Boston said that the Govt. of Canada declares that alcohol is the most dangerous drug, if Jesus used the most dangerous drug then other drugs should be OK.
#34)- CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS OF WHO SAT BY JESUS are given, was it an Apostle or his mother (?????) (??????).
#34)- Conflicting accounts of THE GRAVE SITE OF JESUS are given -(John 19:41 & (????).
#35)- Jesus says that JOHN IS ELIJAH REINCARNATED, but John says he is not -(Mat. 11:14, John 1:21).
#36)- Christ brought an end to
ANIMAL-SACRIFICE, and the “Kosher” diet for Christians, but even the Jews who do not accept him as Messiah stop practicing animal sacrifice after the advent of Christ, WHY?
#37)- Some of the gospels could not have been written by their authors. The scriptures tell us that some of the APOSTLES WERE PUBLICANS (including John). Publican means “common-peasant” PEOPLE WHO COULD NOT READ OR WRITE. John being a publican certainly could not have written a gospel.
#38)- Conflicting accounts of “THE LAST MEAL” before Jesus’ crucifixion are given. In John “THE LAST MEAL” is BEFORE the Passover, in the other 3 it is on a different day (?????).
#39)- In the Bible Jesus is crucified at age 33, while in the Dead-Sea Scrolls he is married at age 36, then has children. Obviously both cannot be true.
#40)- SOLOMON IS SMARTER THAN JESUS-CHRIST, the Bible says that Solomon was the wisest man who lived and who would ever live, outwitting even Christ (??????). Be wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.
#41)- Roman records tell us that Jesus was impaled on a “POLE” not a cross, as this was how CRUCIFIXIONS were carried out in the days of Roman rule.
#42)- JESUS WAS NOT THE NAME OF CHRIST. Yeshuah (or Joshuah) was supposed to be Jesus’ actual Hebrew name. Jesus means “JEW-ZEUS” (the Jewish Zeus) after JUPITER the patron God of ROME. Are these Romans who killed Christ and his disciples to be trusted to translate the truth? Having killed Christians are they not therefore the enemy of God. Can we trust the enemy to publish the truth?
#43 )- JESUS TAUGHT COMMUNISM, yet western churches oppose the very idea supporting the Capitalist Conquest of the earth -(Acts 2:44-45, 4:32-36, Luke 3:11, Is. 29:19).
#44)- APOSTLES couldn’t have written gospels as some of them WERE PUBLICANS, a publican is somebody who cannot read or write. (???)
45)- Jesus said “BLESSED ARE THE POOR” yet then as now poverty is a curse to those who suffer the disease and hardship it brings, abundance and wealth are considered a blessing. Jesus was not poor his dad a carpenter made good money in those days and the wise men brought gold to him at birth, he had the money to get educated in Egypt, the very best in the world. This was the blessing given to Abraham that of ABUNDANCE. Certainly abundance of spirit is also a blessing ans spiritual poverty a curse, as well.

46)- Jesus says “THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH”. Over the last several thousand years it is those with a PREDITORY nature who have controlled the meek, also the same pattern occurs in nature with the animals, the bigger, stronger more aggressive animals (the Alpha) naturally become the leaders of the pack. Will God go against the natural order he created by forcing the strong to be ruled by the weak.

 

So if that is what the Bible actually says, why is my "stuff"?

That would depend on what other proof he had.

 

Yes, and combine the two. We have MORE people living past a certain age limit.

 

So you find it offensive when somebody uses that expression "if that is what you want to believe" because you think it implies you were lying. I think it's also offensive because it implies that your conclusion was arrived at because of what you wanted reality to be instead of a reasonable belief about what it is. I find it similarly offensive when you use the expression so often with reference to my statements and those of others. If you go back to previous posts on this thread you'll find it as one of your frequent refrains. If one were doing an OWB imitation, that would be a good way to begin, because it's so characteristically you. Did you intend it as a "jab"?

One might ask, is it petty to bring this up? Is this one of those "personal attacks" on you by me? Possibly, but the reason I did it was to call attention to a device that has the function of subtly coloring argument so that your opponents are dismissed without challenging their views directly. When people disagree with you, its not just their opinion or something they do believe, but something they "want" to believe, suggesting that they're doing it to serve some inner need or gratify some choice that has nothing to do with evidence or argument. Your opinions, on the other hand are not something you want to believe but something you're compelled to believe because of the merits of the case. That's why you reacted so strongly against it when it was done to you. You even thought it implied you were lying about the sincerity of your beliefs or your true reasons for believing. It's these things that inevitably turn dialogues with you into dialogues about you, because you seem to disrespect the people you're dialoguing with

 

So you're basing your arguments on a source of knowledge which you believe to be superior to science, and you believe that because it's passed every test you put to it, and when asked what those tests are, you won't tell us? Is that your position?

 

Man, you'll never get him with those. He'll tell you he only does them one at a time. By the time you break them down into units of one and we go through the dance on each one, people will have lost interest. Or possibly, he'll tell you you filed it under the wrong thread; that it should be on the "Bible contradictions" thread. (I don't know what the guy does or did for a living, but he's a natural for government bureaucracy). And what's with all the" uuuuuuh like yeah baby" stuff at the beginning? It doesn't strengthen your credibility.

 

Yes, and combine the two. We have MORE people living past a certain age limit.[/QUOTE] Okay but still no one is living past the upper limit which has been about same for thousands of years.

 

No, I objected to the way it was used not that it was used. Myself, I tend to use it, not to imply someone is a liar when talking about their own life but let someone know that they are now trying to force their beliefs on me and they need to realize force is not a good way to convince someone of their point of view.

Actually no, I made a statement about my life, something that actually happened, not something I believed happened and you said about that fact of my life; “if that is what you want to believe” and the use of the phrase in that context implies that I was lying about what I said about my life. If I had said; I broke my collar bone when I was younger and you had said “if that is what you want to believe” that would imply that I was lying about breaking my collar bone. So the same thing applies that when I said that “I originally didn’t want to believe the Bible was the Word of God” and then you said; “if that is what you want to believe” again you are implying that I am lying to you about whether I originally wanted to believe the Bible or not. Now if I had said; I believe the Bible is the Word of God and you had said: “if that is what you want to believe”, I would have had no problem with that and would have probably agreed and said yes that is what I want to believe.

 

I don't believe you.
What is the upper limit?