After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I didn't say that. I'm saying there are multiple factors involved, not just gun ownership.
    You can't claim that one variable is the factor in anything unless you can isolate that variable and then change it to see the result.

    First you need constant variables in each setting. Everything must be the same in Chicago and the state of Indiana. Make up of the population such as ages, family units, genders, jobs, etc. housing, streets and environment, educational levels, income levels, police forces, customs, etc.
    You can't compare a highly economically depressed city with an entire state.

    Then you need to define the dependent variables, what kind of gun crime problem are you addressing? How will you measure effects of changing the independent variable?

    Finally you need one, and only one independent variable, which you don't have in your example.
    You never changed anything in Chicago or Indiana to see what the result would be on the dependent variable while keeping all the constant variables...constant.

    So your comparison just doesn't work.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 17, 2018
    #2841
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  3. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    I never made the point that Chicago and California had higher gun crimes than their surrounding states and cities because of theur gun laws. In fact it was more to point out that you can't blame guns for high crime. There are in fact many variables and gun ownership hasn't been proven to be one of them. If the mantra of more guns equals more crime is true then California and Chicago should be among the safest states/cities in the country.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 17, 2018
    #2842
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The question was asked:
    ...in regards to the argument that strict gun laws cause more crime.
    You replied:
    Now I understood that as you asking why the states and cites surrounding high crime cities with strict gun laws don't have as much crime. I had thought you were implying that the availability of guns reduces crime without considering any other factors, as you mentioned none.

    But I guess I was wrong, you're saying that more guns doesn't have any effect in reducing crime?
     
    MeAgain, Apr 17, 2018
    #2843
  7. machinist

    machinist Banned Lifetime Supporter

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    Well despite that guys credentials he is wrong, but I suspect he was misquoted.
     
    machinist, Apr 17, 2018
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  9. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Banned

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    It would be good if Lott or somebody publishes these statistics so they can be cited when the Supreme Court decides whether or not magazine restrictions pass muster with the Second Amendment.


    Well, it is such an obvious fact that there is no justification for banning assault weapons, it's a pretty easy prediction to make.


    States do not need a precedent in order to be able to pass a law. They merely pass whatever law they want to pass, and the courts strike it down if they find it unconstitutional.


    True, but the Winchester 1873 was available in the period that the show was set in, and it also held 15 rounds of .44-40.

    And the .44 Henry was available from 1860. Its 15 rounds of .44 rimfire were pretty much the same thing functionally.

    Hollywood is often very sloppy when it comes to guns. What I always find jarring is the scene in the movie Unforgiven where the guy says the store owner won't let them have any more .30-30 shells unless they pay for them.

    And I've heard people complain about The Patriot using big siege cannons in the place of field cannons, although I haven't checked to verify it myself.
     
    Toggle Almendro, Apr 17, 2018
    #2845
  11. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    I'm not saying that either. I'm simply debunking the myth of more guns, more crime. Whether guns in the hands of law abiding citizens reduce violent crime is an argument unto itself.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 17, 2018
    #2846
  13. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    In response to what you replied to me, the CDC already did a study showing that no gun law has been shown to have the desired effect.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 17, 2018
    #2847
  15. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Source?
     
    Okiefreak, Apr 17, 2018
    #2848
  17. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Maccabee, Apr 18, 2018
    #2849
    machinist likes this.
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    First, of all this report does not address all firearm laws.
    Second, of the laws that were looked at in each instance inconsistent evidence was found for the effectiveness or non effectiveness of any law that was looked at.
    From your link:
     
    MeAgain, Apr 18, 2018
    #2850
  21. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    So at best gun laws have inconculusive results. Nothing that reduced violent crime definitively.
     
    Maccabee, Apr 18, 2018
    #2851
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