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Jiddu Krishnamurti On The True Artist...




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#1 Ajay0

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Posted August 17 2016 - 06:28 AM

 The philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurti on what makes a true artist ...


When the robot mind is mastered, undisciplined thinking ceases and is replaced by awareness. Awareness can know love. You can only experience the new when you are aware, when you are without thought. -- Barry Long
 
Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle


#2 BlackBillBlake

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Posted August 17 2016 - 06:55 AM

Yet many great artists are nothing like that at all.Many have even led quite dissolute lives. or been people filled with passion. Maybe too much perfection would not lead to much creativity.



#3 Ajay0

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Posted August 17 2016 - 07:56 AM

Yet many great artists are nothing like that at all.Many have even led quite dissolute lives. or been people filled with passion. Maybe too much perfection would not lead to much creativity.

 

As per Gurdjieff and Osho, art can be divided into subjective art and objective art.  You can see their definitions in the links. 

 

The parameter here is the state of consciousness from which the artist wielded his brush or instrument or pen , the chaotic mind or the still no-mind. 


When the robot mind is mastered, undisciplined thinking ceases and is replaced by awareness. Awareness can know love. You can only experience the new when you are aware, when you are without thought. -- Barry Long
 
Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle


#4 BlackBillBlake

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Posted August 17 2016 - 08:25 AM

As per Gurdjieff and Osho, art can be divided into subjective art and objective art.  You can see their definitions in the links. 

 

The parameter here is the state of consciousness from which the artist wielded his brush or instrument or pen , the chaotic mind or the still no-mind. 

If it's art we're talking about, I'd say the work is everything. But I'd be interested to know some examples of pictorial art you'd define as objective.



#5 Moonglow181

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Posted August 17 2016 - 09:30 AM

How interesting!
I understand all of this very well.....but it is annoying when people try to describe that which cannot be described....
but I will further this by saying......if you look at a piece of art...
How does it make you feel?
dizzy?
nauseous?
sick?
confused?
scratching your head and telling yourself, I know I should like this piece as everyone tells me I should and the experts deem it as so.....but I am not getting it.....
or does the piece make you feel happy, peaceful, serene....able to use your own imagination to an extent.....

Art is the direct relationship between the artist and viewer...Something which makes me feel sick and dizzy may make you feel happy....It is all subjective.

i fight so hard all of the time to put into words what cannot be.

#6 BlackBillBlake

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Posted August 17 2016 - 11:56 AM

"All Western sculpture is sexual. You see the Roman sculpture: beautiful, but something creates sexuality in you. It hits your sexual center. It does not give you an uplift."

-Osho.

 

I assume this gentleman never saw Trajan's Column or many statues of emperors senators or other worthies of Rome of which huge numbers exist, most of which are to my mind decidedly un-sexy. This is the trouble when people try to generalize about a thing a broad as Roman sculpture. Obviously Osho was thinking only of the sexy statues with which he was familiar.

 

If you expand it to western sculpture in general what he says is simply ludicrous. How many totally un-sexy statues are there in European cathedrals for instance? In European cities?



#7 Ajay0

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Posted August 19 2016 - 07:05 AM

Yet many great artists are nothing like that at all.Many have even led quite dissolute lives. or been people filled with passion. Maybe too much perfection would not lead to much creativity.

 

This is because most of these artists of the west lived and created their art on the background of the chaotic mind. Some even went insane and committed suicide.

 

They did not know the art of meditation, of stilling the mind and operating out of a state of pure consciousness which would have enabled them to transcend the madness and chaos of the mind. 

 

As Osho says,  " All creativity is a deep suffering, unless your creativity does not come out of the mind, but out of meditation. When it comes out of meditation, creativity is sharing the joy, sharing the blissfulness that you have. Mind has no joy - it is really a wound, very painful."

 

 

If it's art we're talking about, I'd say the work is everything. 

 

 

Would just technical excellence count as art ! There are many nazi propaganda paintings used as posters which are technically sound but are quite superficial in their content.  There are technically sound quacks who can copy famous paintings which even experts would find hard to differentiate. 

 

A criterion which can be used to define art would be that of Leo Tolstoy's saying on art. 

 

Art is a human activity , whose purpose is the transmission of the highest and best feelings to which men have attained. 

 

 

And objective art , which enables one to bring the viewer to an elevated state of consciousness himself or herself, would qualify in this regard. 

 

 

Objective art helps to induce in the viewer , as Gurdjieff and Osho put it, a meditative consciousness which brings along with it joy and bliss. 

 

The cyclone is chaotic in the periphery but calm and still in the centre . This is a good analogy for the mind as well. 

 

Objective art thus helps to make the mind centred and balance the consciousness, which otherwise is imbalanced and vacillating due to the numerous unconscious psychological tendencies within, manifesting as various likes and dislikes, cravings and aversions. 

 

Subjective art definitely has its utility. Many find painting and playing music therapeutic. 

 

Subjective art is a catharsis ; it helps the mental health of the individual who has created it by helping him or her to throw out the inner unconscious turbulence within and relax the mind. 

 

But as Osho stated, half-humorously and half-seriously, he should not display his creation to others as it might endanger their own mental health. There are films and literature which has inspired serial killers and criminals, and all those would come under extreme subjective art. 

 

Subjective art is like dreaming. Your dreams are but a way of ejecting out of the system all that you have repressed in your day to day life. If you have repressed sex you will have sexual dreams. Whatever you repress will manifest subtlely as dreams. 

 

Those who are deeply meditative have no dreams whatsoever because they experience everything totally and intensely without allowing any mental residue to linger. They are able to attain deep sleep thereby which is refreshing and peaceful. 

 

 


Edited by Ajay0, August 19 2016 - 07:33 AM.

When the robot mind is mastered, undisciplined thinking ceases and is replaced by awareness. Awareness can know love. You can only experience the new when you are aware, when you are without thought. -- Barry Long
 
Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle


#8 Ajay0

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Posted August 19 2016 - 07:20 AM

"All Western sculpture is sexual. You see the Roman sculpture: beautiful, but something creates sexuality in you. It hits your sexual center. It does not give you an uplift."

-Osho.

 

I assume this gentleman never saw Trajan's Column or many statues of emperors senators or other worthies of Rome of which huge numbers exist, most of which are to my mind decidedly un-sexy. This is the trouble when people try to generalize about a thing a broad as Roman sculpture. Obviously Osho was thinking only of the sexy statues with which he was familiar.

 

If you expand it to western sculpture in general what he says is simply ludicrous. How many totally un-sexy statues are there in European cathedrals for instance? In European cities?

 

What Osho meant to say was that the state of consciousness from which the artist applied himself was that of the mind, and not that of thoughtless awareness which comes with meditation. And this is understandable because the west is not familiar with meditation as it is in the east which helps the artist to transcend the mind and observe reality as it is without the interference of the conditioned mind. 

 

The greatest sense-pleasure is obviously sex, and this colours the perception of the mind and leaves its residue in its works.

 

Here are some more notes on objective art by Osho. 

 

 

 

Here's one by Osho himself. 

 

 

oa_calli.jpg

 

 

 

 

A link on more of his paintings. 


Edited by Ajay0, August 19 2016 - 07:31 AM.

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When the robot mind is mastered, undisciplined thinking ceases and is replaced by awareness. Awareness can know love. You can only experience the new when you are aware, when you are without thought. -- Barry Long
 
Evil is an extreme manifestation of human unconsciousness. -- Eckhart Tolle


#9 soulcompromise

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Posted August 19 2016 - 07:47 AM

scratching your head and telling yourself, I know I should like this piece as everyone tells me I should and the experts deem it as so.....but I am not getting it.....
 

I find it useful to try and understand where the art comes from. What inspired the artist, and what technique is he/she trying to use. 


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#10 Moonglow181

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Posted August 19 2016 - 08:44 AM

Don't hate me, but that piece by Osho you are showing here makes me feel kind of dizzy and i cannot relate to it very well......physically......

I try not to get too cerebral about art....and let it be a pure experience of feeling and connection or not....I just know what I connect to on all levels with sight only when it comes to art......and that is very subjective to each viewer......as we are all bringing what we have inside of us to anything we see, also......


Edited by Moonglow181, August 19 2016 - 08:45 AM.





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