"You see, a contradiction in Buddhism..."

"... Is that wishing to end desire, is another desire in itself."

That is what the Professor in my school's meditation club stated.

"It's a paradox", I replied. He simply nodded his head.

Now, though, I think I have a better understanding.

Just be.
Be mindful,
Be aware,
Eat your lunch and sip your tea.
That's all.

It's not about obtaining a goal. Nor is it about eliminating desire, it's just awakening. No aim, no ideal, nothing to strive for. By listening to our breath, and becoming mindful of ourselves within and without this very moment- that is enough. Now I see the misunderstanding of Buddhism. Is it really a philosophy when we say, simply, sit?

There is nothing to gain or to lose.
Just be.

 

It can also be seen as a fire. The desires are as fuel and the fire is the desire to end desire. And when the fuel is all used up the fire dies away on it's own - it's work is done.

 

This was how it was described to me, almost exactly. These were a few more points:

In order to end desire, there must first be desire. This is a very constant part of logic -- there can't be "no desire" if there isn't first some "desire" that exists.

When you desire to end desire, you learn, slowly, how to stop desiring. Thus, instead of adding more fuel to your fire, you add less and less fuel, until it eventually burns out completely and no more fuel is added.

What your professor said was true: Wishing to end desire is a desire itself. However, in wishing to end desire, you end all desires except this desire (to end desire). The final desire that ends is the desire to end. Does that make sense?

Your professor is correct, but he's not seeing the bigger picture ...

 

I don't desire to end desire. That's silly. Just don't get caught up in desires that make you feel bad.

 

That's true. And yes, it makes sense . . . The professor tends to stick to imaginative and guided meditations. Ones where you imagine yourself ascending into the cosmos and 'fullfilling' your desires, healing your pains with 'white light'. Sending your wishes out into the universe and accomplishing them - goals, etc.

I feel that while this meditation can be useful, it isn't helpful. It may affect our reality by actualizing things and helping things get done, and may temporarily alleviate our pains and struggles, but the fire still rages, and we will continue to burn.

 

yeah exactly...People meditate for years and wander why they havent changed at all thne realise it's because they havent been taking the meditation back into 'real life' with them. It hasn't pervaded into there life at all.

Also bear in mind the Buddha actually warned of the danger of grasping for nirvana. "The goal of enlightenment shouldn't be grasped at" or words to that effect. I'm sure Meagain can provide you with a more accurate quote.

"Now I see the misunderstanding of Buddhism. Is it really a philosophy when we say, simply, sit?"

Is it really anything other than truth?

 

Nothing is nothing other than the truth.

 

Very well said . . .

And thankyou for sharing Peterness and Bhaskar.

 

That is because it is the mind which is desiring, and in the desiring it is taking one away from oneself, making the mind stronger or truculent.

The end of desiring will only come through understanding, and understanding will come with the realisation of the futility of desiring. One has to go through the fire.

But as far as "contradictions" go, there are plenty within Buddhism because of language (translations), meanings and semantics.

So one could mis-read the Dhammapada where it says,

That sentence is loaded with desires, the paramount being to "be free." Who wouldn't want to be free? But then one would have to first realise that one is not-free, that one is a slave to one's thinking, senses and passions. All that is necessary is awareness. But one cannot try to be more aware, one can just become aware of what one's awareness is being applied to, how that awareness changes them second by second, how they have been conditioned to respond to stimulii.

By the scriptures saying, "Be a master," desire forms within us. So what is one to do? Dismiss the scriptures? Try to become a master? Or just be aware?

 

Be a master of all you think, and say and do. not a master of things, or of people or of lands, but of yourself. Free yourself from desires and the binds of thought-created knots. The message is clear enough.

One who wants to see an excuse for indulgence will always find it.

 

such appearant contradictions can be found everywhere we look.

is not what we, whatever we call ourselves, contribute to, more then our selves?

=^^=
.../\...

 

Well, for me personally, the basic premise that "I wish to end desire" is wrong. I don't wish to end desire, I only wish continue being. The end of attachment does not come through conscious action, because by consciously deciding that we want to end desire, we have created a new desire--and such things can loop infinitely. That's why I see none of the Buddha's teachings as rules for living...they are simply words. To look to them as concrete rules for action would be missing the point.

 

The desire to end desire is not quite as you say ... (to my understanding)

You say that you desire to continue being. This stems from attachment to, clinging to the illusion of the self. Every day is a chance that you fail to continue being, and so every day you struggle and suffer. The cycle never stops until you die.

When you desire to end desire, you are effectively taking a fire (desire) and learning techniques to STOP putting gasoline into the fire.

Yes, your desire to end desire is a desire in itself. In ending the desire for everything else, however, you have effectively eliminated the fire by refusing to fuel it. When you have this one desire left, all you need to do to accomplish your goal is to stop desiring to end desire. Voila. You no longer have desire.

 

Google for the Diamond Sutra. It seems devoted to this kinda paradox. The raft must be abandonned once the other shore is reached kinda thing. All beings are saved but in the end, none will be save for to think in terms of beings is attach to the illusion of individual selves.

 

Isn't the problem really that we only wish to end desiring because of something we have been taught?

Isn't the real problem that we wish to end our perceived suffering? But notice that we seldom wish to end "pleasuring".

So basically nobody wants pain, we all only want pleasures. We have been taught that one cannot have one with out the other, though. But I doubt that many of us have realised this yet.

 

Actually it is the end of both pain and pleasure that is nirvana. And that brings with it a different joy, a joy that is not the opposite of sorrow, it is not an experience, but a being. In going beyond pleasure and pain we become bliss.

 

Well said!

 

Have none of you ever read, I believe "Ram dammaus", I think thats his name's, book....Remember-Be Here Now. This is the exact teaching that he goes over. And in the end the answer to finding Nirvana is to know only one simple teaching.

"Remember- Be here now"

And It's the truth, There's no paradox inside of that....

 

desire is a handle by which we can be manipulated by others. i see no other reason to elimante it. but i do see that as a pretty darn good one.

that we have been taught we cannot have pleasure without pain is itself suspect in as much as it is something we have been taught.

we can avoid contributing to suffering or at least reduce our contribution to it. by doing so there is less suffering. when there is less suffering there is less likelyhood to suffer. this is not a guarantee. we do not live in a reality of guarantees. it is a probability. we do live in a universe of probabilities.

=^^=
.../\...