Why is there human suffering?

I have been confused lately. In the earlier days of my life I was religious (Roman Catholic), and then I went to a Catholic high school for one year, and became dissollusuioned with oraganized religion, and the religious establishment/heirarchy. Why should anyone tell anyone what not to do for fun in the name of a God that might or might not exsist? Why do people think they are closer to God than anyone else? And finally, if God is supposed to be good, why would things like cancer, floods, tornado, heart attack, etc. exsist. I am not meaning to offend anybody, and I don't mean to sound dumb, but can anybody shed any light on these concepts?

"Imagine all the people sharing all the world"- John Lennon

"It's the ocean flowing in our veins, and it's the salt that's in our tears"- Phish

 

Instead of asking why "God" allows cancer, tornadoes, floods, heart attacks, etc., why not ask your parents why they had you? They knew that you would now be subject to death, that you may get cancer, be killed by tornadoes, floods, heart attacks, etc.

Do you have children? If so, then why? Why have you given them life only to see them die?

Just as you think that "God" has condemned you to death, a God which may or may not exist, you have also condemned your children to death, but seeing as you know that you exist you are guilty, you cannot plead ignorance or innocence.

Even if there were no death, no cancers, floods, heart attacks, etc., people would still complain. The problem is their minds, their egos. Suffering exists because of unfulfillable desires. You see life and wish for something else, failing to appreciate what you have. If you were truly happy you wouldn't care if you died. So the fear of death is the cause of all unhappiness.

Don't bother trying to figure out why there is suffering in the world, just know that it is so and that you can't do anything about it (at least in the big picture.) The only thing you can be sure of is trying to figure out how to not suffer.

 

Drama and Passion.

 

White feather made wonderful points.



"Why should anyone tell anyone what not to do for fun in the name of a God that might or might not exsist?"

Sometimes it isn't in the name of God, so much as in the name of morals that fall BACK onto God. Essentially, yes, it comes down to God, but the sole purpose is because of morals..


All of those things you mentioned happen to apprecitate the more beautiful things, I've come to accept that

 

give yourself a pat on the back for contributing to the world being shit, asshole

 

agreed

 

And you're doing what, exactly?

 

Humans suffer due to natural causes. Either they fuck up their own lives or someone else fucks them up, or natural diseases and disasters fuck them up.

All suffering is due to "natural" causes. No devils, demons, ogres or trolls.

 

If my parents had the power to prevent me from suffering any illness they would. If I had that power I would exercise it on my children as well. Only parents don't have that power - the christian god supposedly does, however. Not to mention my parents did not create the illnesses, the universe, or the human species.

The fear of death is not the cause of all unhappiness. Its much too simplistic a statement. I doubt you meant it so simplistically though.

It is important to figure out the reasons for suffering in this world an do what we can about it. You CAN do something about human suffering, we CAN improve the human condition. We may not be able to extinguish all suffering, but for that reason should we not try to extinguish any?

 

that has never made any sense to me
I can not think of any good religous justifications for this either

God works in mysterious ways

 

thats the best post ever on that subject..thank you
yes suffering exists because we continously allow it to exist, & the whole idea that suffering is part of gods plan only gives us an excuse to allow suffering
if every person acted in ways to limmit or extinguish all suffering, al except the suffering caused by natural disaters would disapear..even the suffering caused by death can be eliminated if death was celebrated asa passing instead of feared & mourned

 

Why do people try to make sense of human suffering? Are we trying to seek comfort? Finding the answer can somehow stop it?

Its what humans do, we suffer through life
some more than others

Who the hell gave us the idea that there is suppose to be a sense of universal justice? Life is unfair and many unfortunetly suffer.

 

That's what happens when it is merely existence, it is what you make of it.

 

Chaos

Yes, existance has no justice.
Justice is a word/concept. Like Beauty or Hate.
Not a thing that is real.
But a thing real in our minds.

"reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away"
[P K Dick].


occam

 

Agreed again, Libertine. You always seem to be on the same track as I am when it comes to this...

To the creator of this thread:
The best thing, in my opinion, to do in order to shed light on the subject... is to not concentrate on why it happens, but just know that it does, and that there is a lesson to be learned from it. If all of a sudden some new cancer forms, maybe it's because of something that we, as humans are doing wrong... i.e. pollution.

It bothers me, how everybody wants to focus their attention on the negative, and never point out, and embrace the positive. More so, it's a waste of life to focus on the negative, and not learn from it.

One thing that always pushes my buttons is when someone says "Why me? Why is this happening to me?" not out of an actual search for the answer, but as if such bad events aren't supposed to happen to an individual. In other words, when others play a victim, instead of searching for the reason why something devestating may have happened to them.

It is also a complicated thing to feel the victim if a loved one passes... It is not about YOU, but more about the natural cycle of life. Grieving is a normal, natural thing, but to take it upon yourself, as if you are the only one suffering is selfish.

Bad things happen to everyone, and the reason it does, is to make you wiser [hopefully] Not JUST that, but bad things happen as a product of cause and effect. If you hurt someone's feelings, do expect that person to NOT seek revenge upon you? If you smoke 30 cigarettes a day, and get sick with lung cancer, what else did you expect?! Everyone's always looking for someone or someTHING to point the finger at, and that is one reason, IMO, why humans created the idea of god and satan. To blame SOMETHING. Take for example ... the case against McDonald's ...people pressing charges because, they ate 12 Big Macs a day ...and UH OH, got obese and sick! Right...because they had to blame someone, rather then themselves.

Aside from natural disasters [death of old age, tornadoes, etc.] HUMANS create tragedies... not a god, not an evil force... An evil force, is a human's way of making up an excuse for getting slapped in the face for something they may have done to cause such a tragedy.

Hypothetically say there was a god, I still would NOT believe that the events that take place in life is because of that... The events that take place in life, happen because WE create them.

 

A+O

EXACTLY..Our greatest stupidity. How facile and stupid do we have to be before we choke on our own idiocy.

To blame others is to rationalise our own errors.
NOTHING MORE

Occam

 

Thanks Occam...
somehow it's strangely a huge compliment to have you agree with me!

 

Well if you're an atheist, you see that all suffering is an effect of lots of lots of people trying to share a small amount of space, and natural occurences such as hurricanes, can have devestating tolls.

Its natural, and we're all destined to die, and it will probably be tragic, but its certain to happen in a beautiful confusing mystery, that we're lucky enough to enjoy for a while.

If you believe god does everything... well, hes kind of a prick isn't he?

 

It would seem that Stoner Bill would like a better explanation... QGUT.

What do you mean? Have any examples? What do you consider "fun"?

Self justification, lying to themselves, don't know any better, they've been brainwashed, they've brainwashed themselves, they were bought up with religion or they have had existential experiences. I would think that having experienced the power and miracles that happen in life would make one humble and appreciative, not conceited.

You can bypass God completely and just accept life as it is, that it "just is." Or you can become a mystic and try to find the answer for yourself.

Why bad things happen in the world is one of the great unanswered questions. Things just happen, good, bad, indifferent, coincidental, random, et. al. Accepting it is hard. But that doesn't mean that one should become hardened. On the contrary one should be more appreciative of living.

As for tornadoes, I ask why people keep building houses out of wood. Homes hould be made out of steel re-inforced concrete blocks filled with concrete and cement to be able to withstand 200 mph winds and fires, termites, flooding, etc. Why do people live near volcanoes, like Seattle or near Yellowstone or Mexico City? Why do people build their homes near the beach knowing that huricanes can blow them down? Why do people build homes near the Mississippi? Or have homes on hills in California which are prone to earthquakes? Is this not stupidity? Everyone is gambling that it will not happen in their lifetime. So who's fault is it really?

If people are getting heart attacks, is it because of diet or stress? People have control over both, so why do they do what they do? Who's fault is it? One must be willing to accept responsibility for their actions.

Look at cancer, a lot of it is caused by diet, we eat too much meat (colon cancer) and not enough vegetables and fruits, etc. Yet now it seems to be increasing because we have damaged the athmosphere (skin cancer). Man has to take responsibility. Carcinogens are in our soil, in our water, in our air. We caused most of it. Appealling to God just shows that we are not willing to accept responsibility. We are not accepting life on its own terms. Part of our ego wants to control Nature and life. Nature cannot be controlled nor bought to submission. The helplessness which Early Man experienced still exists today.

There is subjective suffering and there is objective suffering. Subjective suffering comes down to "why me?" Why not you? If it wasn't you it would be someone else. That someone else would be asking, "Why me?" So what is changed? Everyone suffers to some degree.

When I spoke of desire, the ego, being the cause of unhappiness and suffering, it wasn't meant to address physical ailments but psychological ailments, a malaise of the mind, depression, etc., "Why am I not rich?," "Why can't I be loved," etc. One desires a woman, the woman doesn't desire you. You want her to love you. But what if the situation were reversed? How would you then rationalise it?

Matthew 6:34 says, "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof," meaning don't add more evil than already exists in the world. The Secret Book of James says, "Consider how long the world has existed before you and how long it will exist after you. Then you will discover that your life lasts but a single day and your suffering but a single hour." Suffering is a small part of life when compared to the joy living is. But we fail to appreciate every single moment, fail to appreciate the beauty all around us, fail to appreciate the people around us. If you drink to excess you should not be surprised to find yourself with a hangover. If you do not want hangovers then don't drink. Buddha said, "Everything in moderation. Follow the Middle Way." But we seek to over-indulge in pleasure. The greater the pleasure the greater the pain: the further to the left the pendulum swings the further to the right it must go to balance itself.

The first reason for suffering is poverty. How will you make everyone rich? The second reason for suffering is Politics. How will you affect change? The third reason for suffering is Religion. How will you affect change? The forth reason for suffering is Capitalism, industry, corporations, businesses. How will you affect change? The sixth reason is Science, how it is co-opted by governments and self interests. How will you affect change? The seventh reason is Philosophy. How will you affect change? The eigth reason is lack of Education, Education and too much Education. How will you affect change? One can keep finding all sorts of reasons for suffering, from parents abusing their children to parents ignoring their children. There are millions of reasons for suffering. How will you address them all?

One can stop others from suffering by being empathic, by helping out of their bountfulness, their excess, by sharing and not expecting anything in return, by not making the other person feel as if he owes you anything and by also keeping their self respect. Many times when we help others we expect respect, thanks, etc. or we make the other person feel bad about his circumstance. In helping others we may feel superior instead of being humble and thankful that we are not facing the same circumstance. We alleviate suffering not by sharing their pain but by sharing our joy. In that sharing we can't discriminate, we can't be prejudiced. If we do we only add to the evil already in the world. We have a little control in our own sphere of influence, in our own little world. We therefore do not seek to alleviate suffering on a Global Level because we are not powerful enough. we affect change at the local level, we start with our neighbours and friends and acquaintances. Before that we start on our own selves. When we make ourselves better we then can make others better. But one can only start with oneself. At the personal level one starts with one's mind and ego. If there is no ego there is no one to suffer.

http://www.google.com/search?q=why+...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

White Feather.

Thank You for defining a simple wisdom.

Occam would rather have suffered .
Would rather be tortured
Would rather be burned to death.
If the alternative was to have never existed at all.

For there is
NO YOU
If you never existed at all

To EXIST
Defines everything


Occam