When you think about it..Is not war a crazy thing?

When I stop to think what war really is, it stops my mind.
Think about it. You go into a battlefield or jungle, with only two outcomes possible..you will get killed or you will kill many others, or both.

It's not baseball, or checkers.

You are there to end someone's life, and/ or to volunteer yours.

....and you have been convinced it is all worth it.

Is it worth it?

 

No war is always a unnessacary course of action ALWAYS thier is other methods to defend oneself.

"One day there will be a war and no one will come"

 

what are you talking about?

 

Is anything worth it? we all die in the end anyway.
Ofcourse, it would be foolish to take that as an excuse to go around killing people, but any action in of itself has no worth IMO.

People die, You die, I die. We are volunteering to die at this very instant.

The warrior dharma is not for everyone, but if by the foolish actions of your leaders---->you are thrown into the battlefield, you do what you need to do.

 

War is a manifestation of the fact that humans haven't yet evolved beyond animalistic tribal conflict.

Unfortunately, it seems to be encouraged, or at least legitimated by many of the world's scriptures such as the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita.

In the words of the old song, "i'ts good for 'absolutely nothing".

 

And as I stated in the thread "War and the Bhagavad Gita " , the Gita teaches you to fight for righteousness and justice, not every war. Krishna and the Pandavas adopted war only because all their efforts at diplomacy and negotiations were rebuffed by the kauravas, inspite of the fact that the pandavas were willing to compromise very much as well for paltry settlements, but the kauravas arrogantly refused this as well.

This was the reason why war became inevitable.

 

::nods:: Yeah, I was rereading the Bhagavad Gita again this week...and I really think that the war is more of a symbolism for life...you know? How can you get a lesson across you use a symbol that is very real...the battle of Kuruckshetra (sp?) was a symbol of the battle field of life...and Arjuna was afraid to do his duties. ::shrug:: That's just me though.

I think wars will stop when we stop thinking the only way people will listen is if we take/blow up their shit. :: le sigh:: Do you think war is just a guy thing and if women were in charge things would be handled differently?

 

Not sure. I've seen women get very catty when waiting outside shop for sales. :jester:

 

Well, in the Gita you have god saying 'go out there and fight for me, and everythuing will be ok' - if that isn't an encouragement to war I don't know what is.
We've been through this in the Gita and War thread, and I've read nothing to convince me otherwise.

 

The type of women who want to engage in war are really men....like Mrs.Thatcher was.

The type of men who want to engage in war are neurotic morons.

 

Actually Arjuna refusing to fight even though he was born a Ksatriya was a good example. Even though war has been accepted as the only solution, he saw it as totally insane, and where nothing good could come out regardless of who would 'win'.

 

He could have just refused to fight. Krishna tells him he must. So he does, and a few years later, there's another war, because the war hasn't actually solved a fucking thing. It's always the way.

'Fight heros - die and win heaven - the war to end wars!!' - It's total bullshit, and for me, the Gita is tainted by that, and hence not a reliable guide to life or proper conduct.

If no-one was prepared to fight, there would be no war. It is that simple.

 

Krishna tells him he needs to fight because it is his duty as a Ksatriya to fight for a right cause (like a cop cannot refuse to shoot when needed) if he had refused to fight he could not go back to his normal world, since he would be ridiculed, and this is why he said that he would rather become a sage and wonder in the forest, than kill his teachers, gurus and friends.

Although when you look at how crazy war is, it is more crazy to abandon your duty when the going gets rough. If there were no policemen in your city, who would you call when having a problem? And If there were no soldiers in a country, it would not take a blink of an eye for someone with a small army to decide to invade.

Krishna refused to fight, and that was the agreement, that he would only ride Arjuna's chariot; however when Arjuna was in terrible danger, Krishna took a wheel and menaced the attacker into retreat showing in this way that sometimes the hiss of the serpent is enough to keep things at bay.

 

The whole problem lies in the totally mistaken assuption that killing on behalf of others is a duty.

I say again, if nobody was prepared to fight, there would be no more war. The Gita and other ancient scripts all basically legitimate killing in this way. Therefore, they can't be trusted as a model which will bring world peace. The alternative is probably destruction on an unparralleled scale coming soon.

The choice as as Buckminster Fuller described it - 'utopia or oblivion'. In utopia there will be no place for 'warriors'.

If war is, as you say 'crazy' then it would have to be crazy god who encouraged it or got himself embroiled in it.

Any so called religion that accepts war in any aspect is a crazy religion for crazy people.

 

Fortunatedly those who believe in fighting and killing the most, are the ones that die the most in most wars.

Those who believe that their country has the right to go out and conquer others, or to rule the world, die by the thousands...

Can any one say "irony"?

 

Hahaha, you should stop eating meat, plants, and everything before you speak that way. Stop breathing as well, because you kill many microbes every second you breath.

The fact is, sometimes killing is impossible to avoid. There is a choice almost always in most cases, but when conflict is brought into being, if one is thrown into the battlefield, he has to fight, there is no way he can avoid it.

Why is there a conflict in the first place? foolish actions of foolish leaders. Dharma needs to be established every single time a fool decides to destroy others for his own selfish purposes.

 

I began by pointing to how crazy it is to decide willfully to go into a massacre field, expecting what? winning what? what is so noble about killing? what is so rewarding in dying? and those are the only two options. So to begin with no one is saying how we should believe in the great benefits of war, yet if there were no benefits in the eyes of the soldiers or leaders then no wars would ever be fought....this is why I emphasize the point of how ludicrous it is to willing march into war; there is no reward
for the dying, but as long as men can be manipulated with empty words, wars will be fought as long as mankind is alive.

Yet we also fight our little wars all the time; we disobey teachers, landlords and authorities, we fight at home, in school, with our friends, we even fight with ourselves when theres no one to fight with.

War can happen in a small scale, and in large scale, and peace is far more scarce than conflict within ourselves, and in the world at large

An utopia where no one fight would have to be a cementery, since even in nature animals eat each other, and the big fish will always eat the small fish. Animals kill for food, men kill for profit for pride, and for greed.

We should fold our intelect and pretend that war is always good.

It is crazy for humans to willingly go into war, because there are no winners in any wars except for those who send others into massacre fields.

As long as there are fools there will be kings of fools.

 

I agree it is impossible to exist without killing. However, we don't have to kill either higher animals or other humans to do so. Plants. perhaps a few fish - we can't do without food.

Also, conscienious objectors have refused to fight in many recent conflicts and been ready to face the consequences of theri refusal, such as imprisonment, social isolation etc.

 

What idiocy. Krishna tells Arjuna to fight the war, because it is a righteous war, and hence it is of spiritual merit if fought. Not fighting it will result in the victory of unrighteousness, which will result in more unrighteousness and unchecked evil.


The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it.
--Albert Einstein

So , I guess you too believe that fighting against nazism and fascism was a bad idea.

 

There is no such thing as a 'righteous war'. That is a lie perpetrated by those who never fight themselves, but rely on brainwashed others to do their dirty work for them.

You just don't get it do you? If Hitler etc hadn't been programmed with militaristic bullshit and false concepts of the 'nation state', there would never have been a need to fight anyone.
If the people of Germany had been a nation of peace loving folks, they'd never have followed Adolf to begin with.
Too many followers in this world. Pity more people dont think for themselves and question authority.

It's simple - humans need to evolve beyond the stage of tribal agression and identification. Until they do, we will see unending conflict. It is very sad when people who think they are 'spiritual' support warfare. It shows a lack of even basic human sensibilities.