Wellmet my friends There seems to be a constant flood of christians comming to the agnosticism forum and telling everyone they should believe your quaint little story of demons and angels..heaven and hell. Well occam comes now to your forum. Yet he does not say you should believe this or that.. He does not post long winded letters with huge quotes from that book you call the word of god. He does not parrot others endlessly without actually thinking about the concepts involved. He simply asks. Do what occam HAS DONE. Abandon EVERYTHING you were conditioned to believe as truth. Then Work out what is real and what is not...FOR YOURSELVES. The result of this..[which took occam 20 years]. IS 'confidence in himself and his method to understanding'. Occam is sick and tired of hearing the ignorant spouting the words of other ignorants. And calling it.. TRUTH. Occam
If we all did that, who would be the followers? Shepherd need sheep. Cowboys need herds of cattle. One without the other will not last long. We would all start to look at each other as peers and equals, and would be followers of no one but our own hearts and minds.... That is a dangerous path. It is much safer if the vast majority of us, at least 95%, just accept that they are incapable of such freethought, and need to rely on others for their direction, and their beliefs. They don't trust their own minds to make good judgements, and rightly so. They are cattle, and sheep, and are far happier, and relaxed when they are living as such. the time that is freed up by not having to question anything can be used to watch tv, play video games, or criticize and condemn those rebels that can't seem to play ball. If you see something that society is doing or teaching that looks wrong to you..... just accept that you must be mistaken and accept it anyway. The other path is just too damn annoying.... trust me. Baaaaaaa Baaaaaaaa,, Mooooooooo Mooooooooo. Bliss, heavenly bliss.
Blackguard Yah...bliss, heavenly bliss. And thus.. 'Ignorace is bliss' Takes on a whole new meaning.. Occam could have said to himself...Why spend time trying to work it all out.? Why bother trying to think? Why not accept what others call the truth..? After all. those wise men in cassocks say they KNOW... And a whole bunch of people believe them Who is occam to doubt them... Well the answer is simple.. Occam IS their intellectual equal. And occams intellect. his reason, said. TOO MANY CONTRADICTIONS TO REALITY. So he made his own way to understanding. And in that way,, found too much evidence that the bible is NOT the word of god. That religion exists only to contiue itself as a worldly power. That jesus was a good man who's life was HIJACKED. Many christians will of course say this is false.. And free speach is a right occam considers a fundemental RIGHT for us all. As is the right to life and happiness. No rational mind needs a god to tell him this.. IT IS FUNDAMENTAL TO LIFE.. [not gods whims] For in having reason.. WE DECIDE MORALS AND ETHICS. For in having reason.. WE DESCRIBE WHAT IS REAL OR NOT. Not god. Occam
Dude, some people have abandoned everything they originally believed. sorted it out for ourselves, and went back to Jesus in the end. I'm a fallible human being, and I need divine intervention in order to keep myself straight. Christianity offers a solid and fertile moral ground for development, if one is willing to make the necessary sacrifices. One must be willing to live a life of service in order to be a good, peacemaking Christian. If you have people coming in to your forum, telling you that you're sinners and going to hell, then of course that's wrong! However, if people want to discuss their beliefs with you, maybe you could hear them out. This is what freedom of religion and speech are all about, and what makes this country free!
Not really, Occam. There's a great book, called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by a man named Josh McDowell, where he explains why he disagrees with that statement. He offers his story about how he actually tried to disprove Christianity, and ended up becoming a believer. It's pretty interesting, even if you're not a Christian, you will see how a reasonable Christian grounds their beliefs in reality. Believe me, my friend, I know it. He died for me and all who would believe in him, so our shortcomings wouldn't matter, and laid down a path for other Christians to follow, so we could be more like Him. Now, if more Christians would concentrate on being *like* Jesus, we wouldn't have as many problems, wouldn't you agree? Of course, free speech is a fundamental right! I just hope to change your deeply negative opinion about Christians. We aren't all bad. But we do need some universal guidelines on how to live our lives. The philosophy you describe is ethical relativism, which claims that reality and morals can differ from person to person. If that were true, the Christians who believe in killing others in the name of G-d would be blameless, since what they are doing in their minds is good. In other words, relativism allows for others to legitimately violate our rights, if what is "good" and "morally correct" varies from person to person. The philosophical thinking process deems that we must always treat our beliefs as though we might possibly be wrong about them. If everyone did that, I think that toes would get stepped on much less, and it would offer an environment more condusive to peace and prosperity. I look forward to hearing your response!
One problem with your proposition is this: First you say that you do not tell someone they should believe this or that. Then you say "Do what occam HAS DONE." which is (indirectly) telling them to believe that what you have done is correct. The whole slant of your message is to get someone to believe your words. You have contradicted yourself in a few sentences. You shouldn't do this if you believe the truth. It's not that what you have done is wrong. Coming into a forum and telling them that you are not going to say 'you should believe this or that' and telling them what they should believe shows something. Do you mean that you are not trying to be forceful (coercive) with your beliefs, but instead are manipulative in a more pleasant and subtle manner? Maybe you didn't contradict yourself in a few sentences, but I bet I did.
You guys do the same thing in our forums. Unlike the Atheist, we don't START threads that were planned to be flames, sure, they turn into them. Even if one's just asking "Why are Atheists and Agnostics in the same Forum?", it always ends up to be a flame war. But Atheists do it here all the time here. With the worse ignorance, mostly it's just spam. You threw the first stones, so why don't you expect them thrown back at you? Once again, I' m against threads designed to flame, ON BOTH SIDES.
So like, God got me stoned at an early age. And I liked it. The only thing is, God doesn't need me to get God stoned cuz God is the most high G there is.
the name game song doesnt go like that... the "hanna" and "ho" should have "f"s not "h"s...and its Fe Fi, not Me My
I'm against denouncing things. I think it is wrong to denounce anything, including denouncing denouncing. What I am saying is that what I am saying is against what I am saying. Basically, I am wrong because I am a dumbass. No I'm not! How dare I say that!! I am such a fuckwad!!! Fuck me! I am not a fuckwad! How the fuck do I get off calling myself a fuckwad! What a fuckin' asshole. That Kharakov guy is a total moron. Can't even string a logical string of words together worth a 2 year olds first scribble. Really? You know what, after all the stuff I've written, you should know that I am excellent at logic. After all, you read everything I write! That's only cuz I am you, you dumbass. Do you really think you can convince me otherwise? Maybe not, but at the same time, I am more than you or me combined. How's that float your boat?
So you think you're perfect? I'd like to disagree. You're awfully biased against all of Christianity for somebody that's perfect. No offense intended, dear. You mustn't hold all Christians accountable for what the Catholics did. I don't support the Crucades, never have, and never will. To "win souls for Christ" means just that, to win them over, and not through forceful conquest. Christ came fulfill the Law so that the Laws of the Old Covenant wouldn't be held against us, so long as we believed that He died for us. Of course, our bodies will die, but our souls live forever. And once again, you're showing prejudice against a whole group of people because of what some have done. If you were talking about people of any other religion and culture other than Christianity, people would be screaming that you are a culturist, and a racist, amongst other things. Religious tolerance means just that, to be tolerant of others beliefs. Can you say that of yourself about Christianity? If people would start following the example Christ left, others would see the truth in His teachings. But until all the Christians unite to do this, you are correct, there will be many who will not believe because of the hypocritical actions of many of "followers". But if it opens up the truth in my life, to make my way clear, give me peace that I give to others, and makes my life free, then who are you to tell me that it isn't the Truth? I understand, my friend, but perhaps when you do this, you come off egotistical and self-centered, and I'm sure you don't mean to do that.
I don't think he means that he's perfect. I think he means, he's a human being, and like all other human beings, he doesn't have to fool himself into believing something in order to put himself on the right track. It's not specifically about the Crusades, though. Mostly, it's the mentality of "winning souls for Christ." Imagine, for a second, that there are as many atheists/agnostics as there are Christians in America, then imagine, that 90% of them are constantly trying to get you to convert, every day. Then, imagine, that they don't actually have anything important or useful to say, that what you've heard is the equivalent of getting automated calls to vote for your senator or mayor or something. Regardless of the Crusades (which aren't justified by the Bible anyway), it still doesn't cover the parts where women may not talk in church, rebellious children should be stoned, and personally ... I really am disgusted with the fact that many of history's greatest and most intelligent thinkers ... Socrates, Aristotle, Gallileo, Voltaire ... all of the great philosophers whose ideas have come to be the very basis of society ... no longer even get credit for what they have accomplished. Instead, it's given to a being that people can't even prove exists. That, in my opinion, is just distasteful and disrespectful to the people who came before you. Yeah, maybe they were heathens, but they were heathen so that you could have a better life. Last I checked, God didn't give out good lives, only huge murderous floods, and made great people (like Jesus) sacrifices for people who aren't worthy of living. That's somewhat of a good point. However ... you know how you lose patience with certain people, after they get poke you enough, and start poking them back even though you preach a no-poking stance? Having Christians and Catholics trying to convert you all the bloody time, it almost feels like being a rock star, and having the media invading your personal life, 24/7. Eventually, you don't give a hoot about tolerance, you just want them to leave you alone, y'know? That's a major problem we have in this world: No matter what group you are a part of, there are always some jerks that are part of the same group that just mess things up for you. Christians have hypocrites, Muslims have terrorists, atheists/agnostics have those guys that go around calling religious people idiots. The sad fact is, you shouldn't have to be judged by the groups that you're a part of. But, because everyone thinks that they're right, they aren't as tolerant as they should be. Burger King is more tolerant. At least, if you go there, you can have it your way. =P Nowhere else in the world can you actually have it your way, haha. A seeker of the Truth. Seriously though, the message isn't even about truth anymore. If that way opens up truth in your life ... that doesn't mean what you see is actually truth. Because of this little fact, there are a lot of hypocrites in every group. People are easily convinced and controlled through ignorance. Then, they serve the purposes of less-righteous humans without ever giving a thought to some of the things that they should. That's why Christians, Catholics, and all people should seek to inform themselves, not just to be servants for God. Anyway ... balance and harmony to you all, and blessings from whichever God you believe in. =)
