They'd Rather Die

My friend and I were once backpack camping near a waterfall in the woods.
First thing in the morning a helicopter comes by, sees us and hovers for a few moments, then leaves.
A few hours later 2 guys from the local Search And Rescue team come hiking by. We talk to them and they tell us they are searching for a group of hikers that never returned from an afternoon hike the day before. We say we haven't seen them; they continue on their way.
The next day, at home, I read in the paper about the group. They were discovered later safe and sound. They had gotten lost.
It was a church youth group and the paper had a small interview with the adult in charge of the hike.
"It didn't look that long on the map" he said, and "We cut down some tree branches to make a fire but they wouldn't burn." (well DUH!!!)
Anyway the article had the name of the church and the youth pastor's name.
I know a hell of a lot about hiking, and I figured I'd do a good deed, so I called the guy.
I offered to go with his group on a hike and teach them the basics on reading a trail guide, how to build a fire and other standard survival technique's.
"Are you a born-again Christian?" he asked me.
"No."
"Then no thanks."
So here was a guy who would rather DIE IN THE WOODS (him AND his group) than be led to safety by a non-born-again Christian.

 

people are so fricking lame. I'm not a christian, to be quite honest, I've become quite a devote atheist in the last few years. I don't give people a hard time about their choice in religion, and I expect the same from them. That being said, my OWN parents church asked me to give a presentation on geology a few months ago (without my parents knowledge) and then my own mother (the church secretary) got all huffy about it and I was uninvited because I not only am not a regular church-goer but also have become a public atheist.... frinkin stupid. I don't understand how a church that preaches acceptance of everyone can't accept that everyone is different AND entitled to their own beliefs.

Sorry for the rant.

 

it's because there are christians and there are christians this is how it is, if it makes you feel any better the group that is so very unnaccepting and antichristian that lives as a tumour in the church will be the first ones to go when the world ends


of course being an athiest you don't believe that prophecy, so I guess that doesn't help you.......

 

or maybe they will just find a born again christian to teach them the skills.....

 

maybe he thinks his 'god' will save him..

 

I saw a story once about a guy whose truck broke down during a snow storm, on a little-used road. The Forest Service closed the road and the helicopter that did a patrol failed to see the truck parked under some trees. The road was locked at both ends; there was no traffic.
The man kept a diary, and in it he stated "I know God will send someone to save me."
Over the next few weeks the guys gas ran out (no heat) then his food. He kept writing "I know God will send someone to save me."
He starved to death.
The guy was broken down about 12 miles from a main road. A long hike to be sure, but do-able.
Atheist that I am I would NOT have put my faith in the Lord to send someone; I would have hiked the fuck out.
He put his faith in the Lord and is dead.

"or maybe they will just find a born again christian to teach them the skills....."
Yeah I'd like to see the kind of advice a Jesus Freak would have given: "If you're lost, pray for God to send help".

 

You mean that there are people out there that are saved and know the skill? People have preferences on who they want teaching. I'm sure there are people here who defend people who say they dont' want religious people teaching their kids or something.

Seriously, the way I see people lumping christians into a single catagory...it's sad...

 

I'm a proud athiest, and I didn't mind when my daughter attended public school, where most of the teacher's were Christians.
Did the youth pastor think that I would turn his flock into satanists or something (while saving their lives)?
The U.S. and education in general would be in a sorry state if everyone insisted that only someone of their own personal sub-demonition of whatever religion they ascribe to could teach them.
To the youth pastor, being a Christian wasn't enough apparently.

 

Although the last time I went to church I was on Acid, I agree with you totally RD. I'm a believer, but can't stand churchianity & the churchstains. So I don't go there. As far as I can read the most Religious people killed their own Saviour. So they might try to burn green limbs or just about anything that defies the laws of Physics. Duh is right. This sounds just so typical of the ultra-zealous. You have to watch out whenever people's don'ts contradict their do's. "Wherefore by their FRUITS ye shall know them." A good tree doesn't bear shitty fruit. There are a lot of people that call themselves a lot of things that are something quite the opposite.

Look at Bush. Christ said "The time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service," Jn. 16.2. Look at the Allaholic Terrorists. Also to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. (Pedophile priests) Sometimes these born-a-beginners are just goody-goody people full of selfrighteous pride. Or evil people hiding behind so-called goodness. It made me into an Atheist & then a Buddhist before I realized what was happening with those people. Like they say, if you wanna be happy for two hours, get drunk; two weeks, get married; forever, get saved. Hey, you offered a drowning man a life preserver & he refused it, so you just let him fucking drown. "Free-will is a bitch." —The Devil's Advocate

As far as the guy who kept writing in his 'diarreah' that God was going to save him —God helps those who (1) Help themselves & (2) Can't help themselves. And He obviously does NOT (3) help those who CAN help themselves but WON'T. This guy obviously did nothing to get out of the jam he put himself in. God didn't put him out there. "Faith without Works is Dead". It's like Sam Kinnison used to joke, "You're starving because you're living in the desert. Nothing grows here! This is sand! Get a U-Haul & move out of the fucking desert!"

I figure, do what you can & God will do what you can't is the way it works. Otherwise why do we have to do so much work to get shit done. Like studying a goddam map first was too much to ask when you're contemplating leading a bunch of kids through the woods. Or asking somebody who knew. That's why people hire guides to go fishing & hiking in the wilderness, because 'they' know the terrain. Hell, I'd follow your group rather than the ill-fated Donner Party any day, Ranger Danger!

This Moron might think he's a Christian; I'm not so sure —but he is certainly an Asshole! "Wisdom is the principle thing: therefore get wisdom; and with all thy getting, get understanding." —Solomon



"Though He were a Son; Yet He LEARNED obedience through the things which he suffered" —Jesus had to learn? Yeah, that's why He came down here in the first place —in order to get a better understanding of this mess we're in. Feel free to forward this to that green youth pastor! Tell him to buy a Compass & then look in the waste basket for the Directions he threw away. But then again, he obviously isn't fond of How-To Manuals.

 

Lol! It's funny how christians keep proving Darwin was right.

 

or that he was wrong. after all, aren't the most fit, best and brightest supposed to advance beyond all others? survival of the fittest?

 

that's what I'm saying, if a group of christians turn down an oppurtunity to learn how to survive in the wilderness because the instructer isn't one of them, I say let nature take it's course.

 

"Feel free to forward this to that green youth pastor! Tell him to buy a Compass & then look in the waste basket for the Directions he threw away. But then again, he obviously isn't fond of How-To Manuals."

His response would likely be: "the Bible is the only how-to manual anyone needs."

 

He doesn't sound like he's read that either RD. I can't understand it all but I accept it's authority as originating from way beyond man's knowledge. It makes more sense to me than any book I've ever read. But Christians cannot confine all truth to the Bible either. It's supposed to be a rod of measurement. There's truth & untruth & shades of gray in-between at every turn in life. If Mahatma Ghandi said, "The moment material security is insured, spiritual bankruptcy is also assured," he was speaking a profound Truth that speaks so much to me. I wouldn't argue with that 'cause I know, "The love of money is the root of all evil." And I've seen that wealth thing played out in people's lives. Someone told me once to be wary of any situation in the spiritual where there's no parallel to the physical world. People can get really fucked-up & go off on some tangent like David Koresh or Jim Jones & take a lot of dummies with them & sometimes poor innocent kids. But there are plenty of physical things that are not discussed in there, such as moss always growing on the North side of a tree. Sounds like you could teach them a whole way of living that would take years! If that's all Christians needed was a Bible, then how could they turn on a light switch or faucet or ride in a car or do any of the things they have to do every day that aren't mentioned. Guy should have taken along a copy of the old Boy Scout's Handbook. And there are great Survival manuals out there. If this world is getting so bad that it's nearing it's end, I don't see how these city-slicker church people are gonna make it out in the wilderness. I guess that's why they think they are going to get raptured before the fit hits the shan which is also not true. They're gonna go through Great Tribulation probably to weed out all of the phonies. Then again, they don't read the Maker's Manual so how would they know. Their pastors, young & old have lied to them for so long about so many things they don't know the collection plate from the waste basket. Otherwise why would they waste so much on building more big new churches when there are poor starving millions & people going down the gutter? It's just purposeful ignorance to keep a cushy lifestyle & ignore the rest of the world.

Back on the subject of camping, I'd certainly like to hear anything you have to say on the subject of camping. You sound wise about the outdoors & I respect that a lot. When I've been in parts of Canada & the Northwest, it's downright awesome, some of those stretches of pines & mountains as far as the eye can see. I always get this feeling that I'm really little. It's almost scary to imagine yourself out there. Come to think of it, I had a dream a while ago about these two guys having a seminar about how they climbed Everest. I was just glued to every word. I remember they took a break & I just couldn't miss getting back inside. It was just downright fascinating to me. i don't know why I dreamt about it, but I was absolutely absorbed with it. Maybe because I am going to do some traveling soon. I have been all over the world, but this time it looks like I'm gonna have to start out alone. It's cool, say on, man. Tell us some good camping places. I noticed the AAA atlas has a list of States where you can & can't overnight for free. I also looked some stuff up on the net.

How about a list of practical stuff a camper should never be without? Do's & don'ts etc. Did you ever wonder why people down in the swamp country don't have a lot of reported West-Nile & stuff. Places like Bayou country. Malaria was big in India & we used to take Quinine tablets sometimes. I always thought that's how it made it's way into Tonic, which the British fancied as a mixer. Or am I being a modern jack-ass about that? It's rough on the stomach though, Quinine. Maybe they'll come up with something against West Nile. We get bit a lot here, it's just par for the course.

 

The 10 Essentials:
Map & compass
Extra water
Extra food
Rainproof jacket
Matches or lighter and kindling
Flashlight
1st aid kit
Whistle
Mirror
Sunglasses
Knife
Toilet paper (yeah I know that's 12)

Here's a few others, highly recommended:
GPS
Cell Phone


Everyone who goes trail hiking should carry a small pack that contains all of the above items, even if you're only planning to be gone a few hours.
It's also a good idea never to go hiking alone, ESPECIALLY if you're female (sad but true).
AND let someone know where you're going and when you plan to return.

The Boy Scout Handbook circa early/mid 60's is one of the best backpacking books ever written. The newer ones are crummy. But the earlier ones ROCK.
It gives a few things you shouldn't do anymore, like build bough beds. And if you're backpacking you should avoid camping in meadows, and try to overnight in area's that have already been camped in (exisiting rock ring for example).

I have hiked & camped mainly in SoCal. For a few decades I worked for the U.S. Forest Service, mainly as a campground host in backpacking campgrounds. I would issue campfire permits (I wrote myself one that was good for 100 years), give out trail info & backpacking tips, give nature talks, and my favorite--tell scary ghost stories around the campfire. Occasionally I would drive an injured person out via the fireroad.

Here's a story:
There is a large backpacking campground in the Angeles National Forest outside L.A. named Fox Creek Group Trail Camp. It's a HUGE campground on a plateu, a place that in the past was a religious commune then later used as a staging area for building Angeles Forest highway and for when SoCal Edison built transmission towers. At one time is was a favorite haunt of infamous California bandito Tubacio Vesquez. There are some ruins of old structures there.
Right after the L.A. riots, some people who robbed a mail truck dug a hole up there to bury their loot until "the heat was off". Later they dug it up, leaving a hole that resembles a grave. Seeing that gave me an idea. Over the next month or so, everytime time I went out there, I collected rocks and piled them up next to the hole.

For years I have been telling campers about the Legend Of The Tujunga Phantom.
Before the Angeles National Forest was established, the area had been occupied by a religious cult circa 1880's. They would take a mule train into town every few weeks for supplies, not much was known about them. Except for their "leader", a tall thin man with a long beard. Passing hikers reported hearing his voice thundering out, preaching fire and brimstone to his flock.
When the National Forest was enacted, the Forest Service told them they would have to leave. All of them did.
Except the leader, who proclaimed that God had given him that land.
The Forest Service searched for the guy. At first all they wanted to do was get him to leave, but then he started raiding cabins and campsites.
So finally they formed a posse and went into the area.
They searched and searched and finally found him--dead.
Well, not all of him.
His head was missing.
And it's said, to this day, his ghost roams the canyon trying to find his head.

So
One day a group of Boy Scouts showed up and made camp there. I start talking to them and tell them the Legend.
Well these were early teens Scouts, not easily fooled.
They were like "suuuuurrre".
So I said "C'mon, I'll show you his grave."
As we're walking towards the hole, I tell them that there was a big pile of stones on the grave, to prevent The Phantom for getting out.
We get to the place and they see the empty hole with the rocks off to one side.
"OH MY GOD HE'S LOOSE" I exclaimed.
Heh heh.
"Mi-mi-mister" one of the scouts asked, his face white "are-are-are you a Christian?"
"Of course" I lied.
"Then do you swear to God what you said is true?"
"I swear to God it's true."
"awwwggghhhh" he moaned.
A few minutes later I went down to the stream 1/4 mile away to where my little campsite was.

The next morning I went back to the main campground. I see ropes tied from tree to tree like a barrier. One of the Troop leaders came up to me and said "WHAT did you tell them last night?"
"Oh just a scary ghost story" I replied innocently, "Why?"
"They built a bonfire and collected sharp sticks and stayed up all night."
Heh heh.

 

Yeah, cool one —those kind a stories. We used to go up to Pigeon lake in Ontario since we were kids. The people who owned the lodge were the great. Really tall Scottish fellow who had been a timberjack in the North Provinces all his life. And his wife who was a great cook. They ran it with their son & daughter. Meadow Springs. I remember as a kid sitting in front of the fireplace of the main lodge listening to him tell stories at night with the adults. They were all true. He had no energy to make things up. It was kind of sad when I heard their daughter died on the road. She was actually hit by a drunk driver just up from the lodge. Her brother saw the car coming & yanked her out of the street & she thought he was messing around & yanked back. Threw her quite a distance & I recall the tree. She was so sweet. I always ordered butterscotch sundays for dessert. Yeah, that was the place. Walleye (pickerel) Muskie, some Northern Pike & a lot of Bass & Perch, Crappie & bluegill, rockbass in the shallows. Those are my most memorable days going through the woods with my first BB gun. There were timber rattlers around, but we never really cared. Also shooting bullfrogs under the docks with a flashlight at night. My dad & I would strip the skin off their legs & throw them in a bag in the freezer. When we had a mess, we'd bred 'em & fry them up. Frog legs Taste like chicken! I learned a lot from my big sister making out with the family's son, catching crabs (under rocks) & getting poison ivy from the dogs that crawled under the cottages. Good memories.

 

My dad was a tried and true camper, as were many of my relatives. Some of my earliest memories are of camping trips we took all over the Western U.S.
One of my favorite memories were the times when uncles and cousins would tell all us youngun's scary ghost stories around the campfire. I enjoyed them so much I have continued the tradition, and I hope someday when they're grown up the boy scouts I scared the daylights out of will tell kids similar stories.

 

I don't know that we roughed it as much as kids, as we went fishing with the whole family, so usually stayed in a cottage. But I hitched across the States alone which was pretty scary. I hitched across Europe & back with another guy from California. I remember sleeping in a lot of places that were convenient if you had a sleeping bag. Beaches in the South of France. These North Africans would come up & frisk the bottom of your sleeping bag at night. France is full of poor Tunisians & Morrocans & some people make a living foraging in different ways although I doubt if Allah was smiling on these guys. We caught some at it since it woke us up. If you sleep with one eye open, they'll stay away, but you don't get much sleep. If they see you are dead asleep you are a victim.

When we yelled at them one time in particular, they said, "You see you need to sleep like this over here, this way, it's better, no rocks!" We're like —thanks asswipe —you & your thieving buddy get the fuck out of here. Thieves slit them open if you had any valuables stuck down there. (Passport & money around the neck, always.) We'd pick a part of the beach where we were on the sand up in the rocks if we could. Or sometimes a private beach if you found one. Sometimes the cops would come in a van & wake everybody up for a passport check. We'd hang around afterwards until they moved on. Side of the road in fields in Austria & stuff. I mean if you weren't near a town, you just unpacked your sleeping bag & backpack & ate what you brought. It seems like secluded places were the best. Or to get invited to somebody's house was even better. Europeans were very hospitable that way.

I remember being so tired I wanted to lay down by the side of the road, but there was just a road through a swamp or I was in a city. I did sleep rolled up in a carpet, standing in the back of an eighteen wheeler Kept me warm on the desert through the night, cause I only had a windbreaker.

You learn a lot on the road in & out of cities. The worst are perverts. But we got jumped a few times. You have to be careful in other countries because they're more apt to toss you out & let their own people go.

We were really young so we took a lot of risks saving money. City-survival is a whole other genre. I read some homeless kid's story on the web. He said it was something he didn't want to do again. But if you have a vehicle, then you can make it as a camper in many places. You've got a metal-plated line of defence & way of escape & ability to move out of areas quickly & are not so vulnerable. Still, the US is extremely prohibitative about people wandering around where they shouldn't be at night, cities or parks.

I saw a funny thing recently at a park near my house. It said Gate to park Closed at 10 PM. If you get stuck in here call the Police at this number. Right next to the sign somebody had crashed their car right through the wooden rail fence. (Rather than get a ticket!) I thought of sending that in to J Leno but never took the photo.

 

Hey dude, I'm up in Oregon. It is too awesome after the Flatlands. I keep in touch with any wires I can borrow. I've taken about 14 rolls of film so far. I'm a little retro about continuous tone photography & still think it's the best as my Dad was one. This is God's country