The mindset of UC Santa Barbara shooter due to failure with women.

So I want to talk about this topic, because I see rhetoric and "woe is me, why am I not successful with girls, I'm resentful toward society" type of thinking and posts by TONS of guys here on these forums, and also just generally speaking with guys who have trouble getting women.


These types of people, with what is obviously anti-social personality disorder + autistic tendencies to have a lack of perspective taking and self-awareness, is concerning, and I think these types of people are on the rise.

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The UC Santa Barbara shooter, also is a PRIME example of how a handsome guy can STILL have NO success with women because his PERSONALITY SUCKS.

Girls take personality into account, although I have heard a LOT of guys do not think this to be true because they believe in the whole "assholes get the girls, and nice guys lose" kinda of thinking, which I think is bogus.

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I would hope that from now on, we a HF community we cite that guy, as a prime example of how girls look beyond looks and even handsome people fail if they're personality needs work.

 

1. I don't think having a negative personality is the same as being mentally unstable, like the shooter was. So, the argument that it's not just about looks, it's about personality is hard to make because this has nothing to do with looks and/or personality. This has to do with mental illness, particularly amongst youth, school shootings, etc.

2. As far as I read regarding the situation, he had relationships. Actually, the last relationship he had was the reason why he did what he did. So, it's not as if he had trouble obtaining relationships because he was too ugly and/or had a horrible personality. He didn't have trouble obtaining relationships. He had trouble getting over the last one because he was mentally unstable.

3. I believe that appearance is what starts a relationship and personality is what keeps the relationship going or not. Despite both elements working together, I do think appearance is more important than personality. To put it frank, you can't show people your personality if you can't even start an interaction with your looks. And I think this applies to both males and females, so I'm not a believer that men are the only shallow ones. Heck, I don't even think this is shallow. I think it's an example of societal programming. All those shows, movies, and other forms of media we're exposed to on a daily basis displays that good looking people are the best option to mate with, so that's why we do it. We're just following the rules to be what society tells us is the best option because we want the best for ourselves.

4. However, personality, appearances, or all the other elements that work in terms of mating doesn't matter if the person is mentally unstable, which I think the shooter was. Everyone gets upset, but there is only a certain kind of person in a certain kind of situation that will shot up a school because that's how upset they are. So, the elements that go into someone being upset don't apply to someone who got so upset that they shot up a school.

5. It sucks when you meet someone on forums like this that claim girls only date assholes or guys only date bitches. It's hard to prove, but it's hard not to prove. And it just makes me want to give the person believing this a hug because mating is hard, but when you start thinking it's hard, then it gets even harder. I feel for these people. Mating sucks! See, I want to give myself a hug.

6. By the way, I've observed that when people number their posts on forums like this, it means the person is upset with the person they're replying to and are passive aggressively telling them off with the numbering. But, I'm not doing that. It's just this is the only way I can express my thoughts right now. I tried writing it in a collective, but I can't do it and now my head hurts.

 

Woe is me.

Sorry, but that kid was not exactly good looking in a masculine way.

 

In the feminine way? You seem to be saying women would not find him good looking because he looks a bit, you know!

I am sure a type of woman would go for him.

Some clearly deranged women think I am good looking lol.

Looking at some of his pictures, he clearly thought he was the shit.

Do you think he was (probably looks a bit rough around the edges now) good looking (that being the point)...regardless if in a fem' or mas' way.

 

Guys who look like him have no problems getting girls if they're funny or charming in some way. Not all women go for masculine men.

But its obvious from watching his videos he's an entitled, narcissistic douche-nozzle.

 

He was not unattractive, but I could see how women might find him unappealing based on his somewhat effeminate look coupled with self-righteous demeanor. Still, the kid had money, so if he simply wanted to get laid he could have easily afforded a pretty hot hooker. Methinks there is more to the story, personally.

 

Some women - either way.

So you are saying he was not unattractive from an effeminate perspective.

No offense, but was there a point being made here?

 

Well in a Barbara walter's interview with his father, his dad GAVE him the moral okay to go to Las Vegas and get laid with an escort.

But this boy, it wasn't about just the sex, for him it was obviously about the prestige to be a "chick magnet" and NOT have to pay for what other guys get by what he falsely thought, by default.

Going to a hooker was not, an equal trade or comparison between himself and other guys.

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@tommeem1, I don't mind your #'ing system when you have a lot to say and a. Lot of argumentative points to make, I do the same thing so I completely understand.


But I disagree with points you made in #1, and your #3, more so in #1.


You say personality and mental ill as are separate, and I think I hear what you are saying. But they are not unconnected concepts, a good chunk of diagnosis criteria for mental health disorders are made from observations of a person's behavior and therefore their personality and how personable, or lack thereof, they are.


You cannot ignore that people who have graced this forum over the past 3 years with similar complaints about women and their unsuccessful attempts at flirting, sex initiation, and serious romantic relationships, have no striking parallels to the same rhetoric as the UC Santa Barbara shooter's rants and rationales.


True, not everyone will express their angst in these matters violently, but I think there are enough factors that are coming together from our pro-violence, pro-entitlement, materialistic, culture that are mixing and fueling those with a genetic predisposition for anti-social disorders to have a green light in their minds to copycat and continue these kinds of actions, and thus tragedy.

Now, I respond to number 3:

I agree that physical appearance in the beginning stages of meeting do, for the most part, matter more than personality, with some special exceptions; when there's a friendship history between individuals that allow for an attraction for personality to develop over looks, as looks didn't serve as the ice breaker to an introduction. On the whole we agree, looks get your foot in the door, and personality gives or determines longevity along with other factors like life goals, communication, jobs/work circumstances, and meeting someone else, and the sex life aspects.

Where I disagree, has to do with your claim that people are focused and shaped by ideals of beauty solely due to the media. This is true media plays a strong role, but what you didn't acknowledge was some science that suggests a universal ideal of beauty that humans look for that is ingrained in us to find irrespective of culture teaching what is beautiful. There is a strong genetic component to suggest genetic superiority in some genes when people look a certain way, and our brains have interpreted that as that person is desirable and beautiful.

Has media distorted a lot of this? Yes, especially a lot of racist stuff from the past, and social Darwinist thinking. But even back then, during USA's slave days, black women must've been found pretty and desirable despite the stigma of mixed-race children, because white slave masters often sexually abused and enslaved their slaves....nature's base instinct to procreate by force or otherwise, regardless of cultural taboos, won over culture at the height of shaming non-whites, as ugly animals.

 

The guy is a wanker. Wankers have existed for thousands of years.

 

I agree he is a wanker, the question is are his type of people on the rise, and the increase of whiny men, with similar rants about their unsuccessful attempts with women, a non-complete version of the same path or trajectory the shooter walked?

 

I think the problem with the way we receive and interpret media today, particularly in horrific incidents such as this, is that it's often only from the extremes of viewpoints. So if we give any credence to some of his ideas, then all of a sudden you get assumed to be supporting a mysognistic murderer. It's much easier to just label him as a wanker, which watching the Barbara Walters interview with his dad, he was probably called that or similar things in high school by boys and girls, as apparently he was bullied, likely had a mental disorder and so then we don't learn anything from this incident.


I've only seen part of that one video of him talking, he clearly seems like a meglomaniac on camera. I'm not going to pretend to know his whole personality from one internet video though.

What makes his situation unique is that he was wealthy and priveledged. I think had he got laid this wouldn't have happened, although I'm not suggesting all his issues would have been cured from that, but he seemed to have some deranged ideas of sex which I think in this particular instance, a rite of passage kind of experience of sex may have changed some of those notions. In the interview with Barabara Walters, his dad mentioned some people wait for sex and even go chaste but I think he missed the point in that many of those cases, people go without sex by choice and this kid clearly was fascinated with having sex.


I think for some guys today experiencing similar issues, there is this almost contradictory experience of wanting to be a 'Good Guy,' gentlemanly, upholding particular values of what they perceive as valor, chivalry, morals, etc. yet the internet often makes people almost commodified in a sense where guys cannot express themselves in that way and it's easier to be brash, offensive and dismissive of people on the net. So some guys who experience those types of responses may have difficulty resolving these types of issues and it results in frustration, bitterness, etc.

 

I will admit guys and girls (we can't forget about the girls) who have made these claims that all women only date assholes and all men only date bitches in forums like this are quite discerning. I have personality encountered them and they don't sound okay with themselves, with others, and their life. But, I personally wouldn't think they're psychotic, sociopathic, etc like I think the shooter was.

I'm horribly sad that I'm in my 20s and don't have a boyfriend, never had a boyfriend, and odds are I never will. I know I will never get the chance to decide if I want to get married or not. I will never have kids. All in all, it sucks and I know I have issues because of that, because I'm not okay. But, I would never commit mass murder because I'm that upset. I may have depression or some other mental disorders, but I know for a fact that I don't have psychotic and/or sociopathic tendencies. And a lot of people who are as upset as me or more upset would never do that because they're not that person in that situation neither.

I do think in some situations personality is what comes first, then appearance. But, I don't think it happens a lot. And even when we befriend someone we're befriending them base on looks, such as similar age, background, lifestyle, etc. So, it's still that situation where appearances starts the relationship and personality, alongside everything else is what proceeds or puts to a halt the relationship.

As for our need to mate with the good looking people, I personally don't think it has anything to do with biology because when I think of biology, I think of everything we, whether or not we're in control of it, or even aware of it, do that is for our survival. There is no or very little proof that mating with good looking people will promote survival. Anyways, it's not that I failed to mention that aspect, I just don't believe in it. Or I haven't done enough research to believe in it. That's probably more fair to state.

On another note, I want to add that I think even though there is this "outline" of what is beautiful that is created by society, brought to us by media forms, and we're programmed to follow because it's conveyed to us that beautiful people are the best in terms of mating, I also do believe in preferences. I think the formation of preferences depends on one's personal experiences, such as ethnicity, what is at they're disposal, what they think they that can have, etc. So, maybe the outline isn't different and our ideologies when it comes to mating isn't difference, but the details are.

 

Yet another holier-than-thou post.

It seems in the US these shootings happen often due to all the media coverage, but given its huge population, they are still extremely rare, assuming roughly 180 million males, even at 1 shooting a week, we would still be talking 0.00003% of the male population in a year.m Which is not reflective of anything


Assumptions made about what he said in his video are all based only on what he was prepared to say, not what he didnt say.

You, Barbara Walters, his Dad, no one has any idea what it really about, including the shooter himself

Ditto on this:

The real reason may have been something totally unrelated to what everyone assumes

 

Sure. As population increases, the statistical likelihood of encountering such a wanker goes up.

 

Comparing apples to apples though, the USA has more gun crime shootings in the last 18 years, compared I the rest of it's own history as a country, and if you apply statistics, in the last 5 years alone we've hit a spike in frequency.


You look at other details like how often the killers were:
Rational or irrational killers or assailants and you've got A topic was talking about that you can't just brushoff say "oh well that's what happens when you have a larger population, it's bound to happen"


Our culture + the mentally unstable people with antisocial tendencies is a bad mix and they seem to be coming together more frequently now. (Note: anti-social does not mean a shut-in, it means desires to harm humanity and society at large)

Bullying can contribute to the profile this guy had sure, that's why I recommend all parents tell their little children how serious bullying another child is, and that by doing so, they might be indirectly responsible for creating a potential murderer.

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@tomeem1, okay fair enough and I thank you for your reply. Our views seem to be in agreement.


@vanilla, of course there is always more to the story, but that doesn't mean we don't have enough information to figure out what happened here with this guy.
Criminal profiling, and many other useful tools are made with only fragments of information, but they often lead in the direction of truth.
Analyzing and talking about mental health issues will be like this because the brain isn't fully understood yet, especially the etiology of mental health issues.

But this guy clearly had anti-social personality disorder.

 

Also I do believe that "nice guys" struggle with the concept of "flirting and chasing girls for sex and seeking it out" with the concept of politeness and being bad.

I think that's a problem, that the "bad boy or asshole types", which they may not be they're just more assertive and resilient to what society tells then to do, don't have those moral quandaries or issues to deal with, their thought is streamlined and uncomplicated.


But for nice guys they struggle with the boundaries between politeness and sexual hungers. The stress if such paradoxes imho is a huge factor in why the mentally ill snap, they can't handle it; they become introverted shut-ins to an extreme, and/or they become violent like the shooter did here.

 

You can point to the situation with that criminal with gang charges whose mugshot went viral on the net and is now getting modeling offers and stuff as an example to see that that kid might have not been completely crazy with what he was saying, it's more of how he dealt with those thoughts and feelings where he was ill.

 

LA Fitness Shooter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Collier_Township_shooting

 

how does that show guys don't think girls take personality into account? seems to me that it proves they do take personality into account, but that they are attracted to negative personality traits.

 

There are different types of crazy and not all types of crazy are equal.

That I concede, but there are patterns when it comes to people we would label as anti-social. They tend to have very angry tones in their parts of speech and views on life. Misogynistic views often being common.