The Messiah Complex-- any Leary's out there?

Has anyone ever experienced this or had it happen to a friend?

Wikipedia says "[Messiah Complex] is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief that they are, or are destined to become, a savior... symptoms of the disorder closely resemble those found in individuals suffering from Grandiose delusions or delusions of grandeur."

When I was first introduced to psychedelics (mushrooms first trip, lsd the next 3), I felt that I had "learned and seen" so much in such a short period of time that I legitimately thought I had figured it all out. I became a Tim Leary type of character after looking back on things in retrospect. I believed that psychedelics were THE answer to the worlds problems and made an oath to turn on as many people as possible. I did successfully get many of my friends to try them, but the results were 50/50 whether people had spiritually enlightening experiences or just a fun, trippy time.

Anyway, it goes much deep than that. I definitely had a brief bout of MC delusions until one day I realized my folly... You can lead a horse to water, but if the horse doesn't see God in the water then there's nothing else you can do. Some people are so fast asleep (in Buddhist sense) that they cannot see beyond the veil and must awaken to it on their own terms.

So now I just try to gently nudge people in the directions towards psyches or meditation if they are beginning to show genuine curiosity about finding out what it's really all about.

Anybody else go crazy after some mindblowing experiences and believe they had to open the eyes of the world??

A&F :sunny:

 

I definitely know that people on this forum have thrown me in this category. But, I think that the more you really care about being a successful instrument for consciousness to "awaken the world", the less attached you have to be to being some sort of "messiah", or to finding any end result in your pursuits.

You never know, the universe COULD want you be a messiah sort of figure. Look at Jesus Christ, Jim Morrison, Timothy Leary, etc.

But I think a certain point comes where you realize that you don't care whether you change the world or not. Your simple humanness can actually be the way that the universe wants you to express your realizations of the Infinite. I keep coming to find that the simplest parts of my expression can be all the alchemy that is needed in any given moment.

I love the notion of having one foot in the transcendent and one foot in the relative world. Then you're dancing between the two and are a doorway between both.

That's why I'm very inspired by mavericks (Lone Ranger), trickster/jester archetypes or gods (Hermes Trismegistus), even Jesus Christ. They seem to be Timeless standers between two worlds. The Maverick is a stander between different geographical/cultural worlds, while Hermes Trismegistus and Jesus Christ stood between two worlds of the universe: The transcendent and the relative. Noumena and Phenomena.

 

I don't have delusions of grandiosity...I AM grandiose...*Shuffles off quietly to his rabbit hole*.

 

No i've far given up on that. The world doesn't seem to wanna be pacifist, unselfish (putting others first as a sign of strength) and nice yet.


least not the western world.

 

I was married to one.. it's close to 40 yrs ago, & he soon put it all behind him.. he would love to bury it, but I teaze him with stuff like 'I had the privilege of being married to a messiah'.. he had done shedloads of lsd (the kind that no longer exists) & talked cosmic stuff that was just tiresome to me.. I can't remember any of it apart from 'all that matters is love'..

 

I view Leary as developing perhaps more of a meglomania rather than a Messiah Complex.
The term Messiah Complex seems more appropriate for someone like Charles Manson.

There is no doubt that Leary's message got more bold and brazen as he gained popularity but I think there is often a skewed view of him today by many, a quote exemplifying some humility :

I think that psychedelics have tremendous potential and value for many people, I've read a fair amount on psychedelics and have a good amount of experiences, so I'll encourage doses, set/settings (terms popularized by Leary) I see appropriate from the knowledge that I've gained. I realize the psychedelic experience is not for everyone though and if someone doesn't get much from it and/or doesn't enjoy it, then I don't see there being anything wrong with that.

Not after but during experiences, I've heard some friends make some rather bold assertions , I've had some experiences myself where I felt privvy to knowledge that felt as if it would lead me to some sort of purpose.

 

The question is, what is the true difference between having a messiah complex and actually being a messiah? Not only did people see Jesus as a messiah, according to the fundamental Christian view, he himself also saw himself as one. Was he also tripping on Mescaline or something? What makes him special? or is he not?

 

i have a friend that thought he was jesus for a while after he took lsd. even thought he could fly.

but i do think lsd is a tool for opening people's minds, there is nothing deluded about that. i live my life in a manner that i try to make a difference and have the most positive impact on the world around me that i can, but that does not mean i have a messiah complex.

 

After some of these real intense, real spiritual type trips, where you get really far out of this dimension and then come back with all this knowledge. It can be overwhelming at first! You start asking yourself why is this happening? Am I the messiah? Or am I just a kid that ate too many mushrooms? What is happening to me? And their is no way of knowing until time goes on.

The scary part is much of what your learned is true. But as time goes on you realize your 1 of millions of others like you. Its all part of the process!

In some way you have woken up a bit, you seen passed the veil. You may not have all the answers, but you know where to look now.

So in a sense you are part of the chosen ones of your time, who the light has spread to, and now you have the opportunity to spread it to others. You may not be a Jesus or Buddha, but perhaps in some ways you can act like them and bring forth the same kind of insight.

There is a good section in Ram Dass', Be Here Now, that talks about the just realized man running into a church, screaming and yelling its all true, its all true! There have defiantly been some trips where I have want to run to a church or run through the streets and scream that.. Of course you'll know what is going on, but no one else will. They will just suspect you have gone mad!

Now that brings up two points. One be respectful to others. Some are not ready to listen to the truth, you can't shove it down their throats. That is why people hate Jahovas Witnesses because they come to your door and try to bring it to you when your not ready. It is better to talk to someone who has also found the light, and you can open the doors more, rather then someone who wishes not to believe such things exist... The second point that it brings up is that don't be crazy yourself. Don't let it go to your head, don't start preaching, thinking you are the second coming.

Just give it time, whatever ideas of grandeur reality will wash away as reality constantly reinstates itself. Whatever was just some crazy thoughts will be forgotten, and whatever is true knowledge will stay with you, and keep opening doors for you. =)

 

I had this too...sorta... I didn't see myself as a savior.. I just wanted to change the world..
Just take more acid!

 

It's important to keep in mind what western psychology was birthed from. Some people seem to want to view western psychology as some objective science but really it has a lot of bias and exists largely in the reality tunnel it was birthed from. Which it was birthed from a western religious background and from this certain modalities from western religion get carried on into western psychology.

In western religions there is Jesus, only one Jesus and no one can ever attain that status. Someone coming forward and proclaiming themselves Jesus was crazy. It's presumed you are a lowly human intended to be a good worker and servant to your country or church or whatever.

However if you go to something like Buddhism the very objective of it is to attain buddhahood. To understand exactly what Buddha understand. In Buddhist monasteries it is the objective of one to come forward in recognition of buddhahood and teach others.

The whole messiah complex thing in the dsm I think comes primarily from its western religious origins where it's viewed as crazy to attain the status of true spiritual knowledge and becoming a spiritual teacher.

With that its really just kind of a sham of a diagnosis. People really can gain great spiritual knowledge and attain the status of a great spiritual teacher in this life. I do think psychedellics radically increase this potential in humans. It is entirely possible you have learned something truly relevant and you sit in a position of unique opportunity to make a huge impact.

However I do think its important to note that there are instances of the messiah complex where it is truly something delusional and a root of pathology. Like some guy believing he is Jesus so he just goes around stealing cars under the guise it's ok because he is Jesus.

But in the context of psychedellic wisdom giving you a uniquely relevant viewpoint and opportunity to make huge impact? No that's nothing bad. Just remember not to be a dick about what you know and be patient if you try to teach people and always try to listen to and understand them personally.

 

yes very well put spiritual insight does not equal messiah complex.

however Jesus did say greater works than these you will do, so i don't know if christianity really discourages the spiritual mind.

 

Excellent post Rygoody!

 

Well if they would have crucified Leary and then he popped out of the grave a few days later, well then I might take a second look at what he had to say.

Even Jesus himself realized that many claim to be this or that, so he plainly said when asked "what sign?" that he would be killed, dead for three days, then rise, like the sign of Jonah and the whale.

So maybe that's what makes him special, plus if you do your homework you will also discover that Jesus was the only founder of any of the major religions who plainly made the assertion that he was the literal incarnation of God. No other made that claim.

Plus lets keep in mind that "messiah" is actually a very specific title for a specific person, and at the time/culture when Jesus made claims of being the Messiah it was a helluva lot different than someone making that claim today. That is why it was met with the shock, astonishment and wrath of the majority of the Jewish community.

"This grubby beggar is going to liberate the Jews and be their King!!??"

"WTF!" "Crucify his ass!!"

But they were waiting for the Lion and forgot about the Lamb






sorry, got off on a tangent, probably took too much acid when I was younger

 

I actually had a really bad case of this today. Because of the DMT.
For a moment I thought I was a Messiah. Really strange.
I met another tripper who looked at me like I had a huge fuckin aura or something.
Interesting feeling. I think its a delusion.

 

It tends to happy to people who are already a little "like that" or who have completely battered their brain to shit recently ^

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deeBQZ8Aklc"]ROY BUCHANAN - THE MESSIAH WILL COME AGAIN(LIVE 1976) - YouTube
mks..

 

Well that's nonsense on his part. Why would he say such a thing? If he really had the wisdom that he claimed to have had, he should know that all things and all people and animals are equally an expression and incarnation of "God", if you want to use that word.

To me, that claim of him is either very egoic on his part, or probably more likely is that his words were highly misunderstood and misinterpreted in his time, and 2000 years later, we have the idea that he was claiming to be the ONE messiah.

I think that Jesus actually just realized Oneness, which is non-personal. There isn't somebody to be the One. There's just the One. And it's everywhere. And since everything is the One, where are you going to find it? At that point, you might as well throw the concept "the One" away, or use it very transparently.

This is what the Buddha meant when, after reaching enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree, he said, "I and all beings in all places have simultaneously awakened". This seems to mean that the Buddha woke up to the One.

And perhaps this is what Jesus meant when saying that "the Kingdom of Heaven is all around you, yet you do not see it." Both statements seem to be penetrating the same truth, which is that the one supreme Reality is here and now. Oneness and completeness are everywhere you go, yet people don't see it because this is rather un-interesting to the average human mind, which is always seeking the next "thing" in some imagined future that will seem more complete than right Now.

But both of these expressions seem to be radically different statements of the same exact realization.

I think that Jesus' expression was more evolved than the people of his time, and he was therefore HIGHLY misunderstood, and killed because of it.

Even after being raised going to Catholic school, I just personally couldn't see him actually feeling like that he is "higher" or more noble than anybody else, despite the words that he used to deliver his message of realization. Why would there be one single Messiah? And why Jesus? Enlightenment is about realizing your NON-specialness. Not how special you are. Egos claim to be special. Enlightened people realize the Unity of all things, and if they're wise, keep their mouth shut.

Perhaps the universe sometimes needs someone to jump and shout in order to snap people out of their trance? I'm not sure, but they are bound to get themselves into trouble.

 

hmmmmm, interesting perspective chinacat,
but have you ever considered the possibility that it is exactly how it reads.

Re-read your post and notice how many times you qualify the Bible with "I think" rather than accepting it at face value.
I have never understood that, especially with the absolute lunacy I hear people buy into completely without a moments hesitation.

Whenever people have to qualify stuff so much, maybe they need to go back and reconsider it without worrying about it fitting neatly into the world they desire it too.

There is actually a complete study I have seen about the claims Jesus made, you are forced to one of three conclusion,
1) Jesus was batshit crazy
2) Jesus was a lying charlatan
3) Jesus was/is exactly who/what he claimed to be.

Can't get into it here, but when looked at considering the legal, cultural, religious, political shit going on surrounding it, you come to a conclusion that maybe there is a lot more to this guy who was crucified than we think.

Like an agnostic friend of mine realized after careful consideration of all possible scenarios;
"What if the Christians are right?, There is really nothing any more crazy than most other ideas out there."



again getting way off topic, sorry.

 

I can dig that that's only my interpretation but I'm not the only one who has that interpretation.

That's the other thing, is that even in the world of Christianity there are countless interpretations of the Bible. And then the mystery schools like the Gnostics have their own interpretation as well. The actual birth of Christianity itself is a mystery. Some people think that Jesus was a made-up figure.

Overall, it just seems rather "magical" that one person is the actual Son of God and came out of his virgin mom's vagina. The Buddha and Christ and Quetzalcoatl were all rare evolved human beings, and that's it. Some people even think that Christ and Quetzalcoatl were the same being. At least you don't see the Buddha being so egoic about his realization.

It's a bunch of BS to claim to be the one and only son of god, whatever that's supposed to even mean. As if every other human isn't just as divine. The difference is that some people realize their divinity and others don't care to, but either way it's still there. So Jesus can fuck off being the "one and only". People existed before Jesus ever even came along. They couldn't have also realized their own divine nature? Clearly his dying for our sins hasn't stopped any sin from taking place. If his crucifiction truly pays for all future sins then why do Christians even believe in Hell? Why would it matter?

I think that enlightenment and realization of your own divinity is an absolutely real thing but it seems that Christ was just as bad as Leary in his proclamations.