some disabled people think some rainbows need to do more

This stuff happened over a period of months and i am too dense to figure it out. Maybe y'all can help.

The short story is i volunteered to work on a shitter at welcome home, and then apparently was rude to some people who in the end taught me a lesson. Don't try to be sly with these folks they will see right though you.
Hopefully my attempt to bring this issue to the fore will redeem me for not doing so earlier.

I am not clever enough to respond to all of the intracasies that are within the exchange below. I will however do one mans share of pushing a shovel if i end up in colorado.

 

SO HERE IT IS. BELOW IS A LONG EXCHANGE AND IT IS PROBABLY HARD TO FOLLOW AND YOU MIGHT HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO. good luck #

****************

this is per your request Rastapatch~ it was e-mailed to me~

hey there -

I understand what you're saying. What I need to say is Im not the leader or instigator of this.

Here is how I've gotten to where I am with this. I'll try to make this as short as possible.

I joined CO Family group last year, late summer, I believe. I posted how happy I was to be there. I read posts from some others about how disgusted they were with disability situation at gatherings. I, of course, was amazed that such a thing could be and expressed that - in return I received some sarcastic messages about'naive young hippies' not knowing anything. I am naive, but not that young!

This really irked me, as yes, I am very idealistic, which breeds naivete. But still, I always believe the good in people before the bad, unless they're actions prove otheriwse. So, I was intimidated, and tried to make amends to my 'naivete'...since I am a 25+ yr activist, I took the activist stance - first of all, I was, and am appalled at the way some people responded to my request for help in figuring out good access for wheelchaired individuals - I posted on CALM first - since I was and am planning on offering healing sessions there (Im an herbalist and Reiki healer) - there were two people who posted who were cold and callous. Much the same response as I said earlier - let'im take care of their own situation, etc.

So that confirmed for me, if these were 'so-called' long-time Rainbows, AND in CALM - a healing group, and they said things like this - well - I was shocked and disgusted...since my expereince to this date had been that Rainbow was all about love, and hope, and kindness and the family.

Since then, I have still been bringing it up, with encouragement from Tom, Wolfstar ( this is me: succulentflower ), and a few others - MamaTurtle, who is too ill to come this year, even though she is in TX. MamaTurtle told me she has encountered rough times at gatherings too. She is the one who created special rickshaw thingys for wheelchairs.

However, the only positive Ive heard to this point, besides from you, is from Rob, who tells me that its been routine that disabled can drive their vehicles on a back 'road' to main circle, and not have to worry about the access. Since I trust Rob quite a bit, that made me feel better - however, when I asked others about this, they were pissed about the idea of 'backroads' being used to get to the circle and said that was off-limits. I could give you some 'names' from CALM, but I prefer to not start conflict. Suffice to say, they were very agro.

So, all in all, there are a lot of people who havent responded and then those on two sides.

I know that Wolfstar and myself (Wolfstar, please respond if otherwise) DO NOT want to see a protest - its just outrageous. I myself have recently been diagnosed with permanent , dibilitating auto-immune diseases. I cant handle stress, violence, anger, irrational behavior - I stay so far from A-camp, as to walk by it with my own force field on. The idea of having to handle any kind of aggression - I'll have to find a back way in.

Im responding to your message in depth, because my feeling from you was one of censure and of not knowing what Im talking about - so Im giving you my experience of this whole thing.

Believe me, my expereinces of Rainbow have changed my life, and I am thrilled it will be in CO this year - I am thrilled to be around so much love and wholesomeness - life has been extremely hellish for many years, and I look to the gathering as a balm, an ultimate vacation of peace and prayer.

My experiences online, in the Rainbow community, have not been the same as on the land. And I never visit the AGR sites.

Thats all for now...I wish everyone could get along - the critters seem to do so without much problems.

peace,
Holly
----------------------------------
kevin jefferson <rastapatch@yahoo.com> wrote:

Holly, i want to say this as carefully as i can.

I have followed this conversation for a very long number of years.

I am glad that you are going to the gathering this year. I am glad Tom is getting to go, he has not been in 33 years.

Within the decades that i was at the gathering, and Traveler was not, i never saw a single person, any person, ask for a single thing at a gathering and not get it almost immediatly. Ever. Anybody. Ever.
-----------snip-----

A little history here folks: Tom Travelor carries the seed of the First Gathering, and he wants to come home.
---------------------

Rastapatch:
When you say there is no idealism at the gathering, I wonder if you are speaking of your own experience with people being told 'if you can't make it in too bad'?
----snip-----
Succulent>>this has been reported by a lot of ppl w/disabilities, not being acknowledged of their experience of having to stay away from gatherings, or having to stay in their vehicles in the lot.

Succulent>>>I really do think that you are unaware, because this IS happening.

----------
Rastapatch:
Have you experienced that alot? I wonder if i am unaware, or if maybe there is a certain way that i say things that helps people say yes to me.
Or is it just a coincidence that i don't experience that. Or am i just oblivious.

------

It's a possiblity by these remarks here that you ARE. And what are you implying (this comes off as rather hostile. But it is hard to sound compassionate online. Sometimes it's the way the sentence reads)

"Or maybe there is a certain way that I say things that helps people say yes to me."

Now that sounds snide for sure!

This implies that we aren't asking for the RIGHT things the RIGHT way.

How can I help you understand, that we are looking for accessibilty for the gathering, that's it.

We aren't personally atttacking you, we just want to ensure accessibility and a strong welcome home for EVERYBELLY!
-----------


I have camped right in handi-camp before, twice. It is well stocked, and often has a prime location. The folks that run it are capable, and take pride in the fact that they carry their own weight. They often have a dirt road straight from their camp down one mile or so to the main circle.

------------

IT has been reported by folks at TGC , that *Handcamp"* focalizer past away and didn't pass the torch, so it has been the inspiration of some family in Colorado to have a *AngelCamp* in honor of Mamaturtle, who's heartsong it was.

---------------------
I was once on medical leave ONE DAY AFTER an operation on my innards. I could not walk more than a hundred feet without resting. I was given whatever i needed, and did absolutly no work for the entire gathering. I layed in the shade and did not even explain myself. I had a great time.
-----------

I am glad that you *tried* to identify with someone with a disability here. It's a good try. It's normal to do what you did after a surgery. Ppl get up and walk sometimes the same day after surgery (depends tho) primarily because it helps get the GI tract moving. I'm sure you didn't leave AMA, huh?
-----------
I took my son to the gathering when he was five weeks old, and we stayed for a month. We washed cloth diapers on the site every day, and hung them out to dry. We had lots of help, and everybody had a great time.
The folks who run handicamp stay there to run their camp, and i believe they go in and out of the gathering as much as they want. Most handicapped folks that i know at the gathering do not even stay at handicamp. They stay anywhere in the gathering. There is a brother named Sharp who sharpens blades at info. There is a brother who is at main counsel almost every year. There are 90 year old men who are barely in this world who wander the main meadow every year, and sleep on the ground under a tarp.

I'm glad i get to see the good side of the gathering three times a year every year for decades. I must be amazingly lucky. I hope you and your angels are lucky also.

This group is for a specific purpose and that is to set up a welcome home camp that helps all folks who are on the trail, on their way OUT of the parking lot and down to the gathering. We hope to show them how to run a fire-pit, and how to put ashes on a fire. Boil their water, and wash their dishes, etc. If you decide to help us with that it would be great.

I absolutely refuse to be any part of any protest. If it comes to that i will take my gear to main circle and put my tent in the shade and fast and do massage. I will give equal access to massage to all folks, with nice girls in the front of the line.
----nobody asked you to be part of a protest----

But what is are you going to do if a person with CP shows up at your shitter? Pack up your gear and fast and massage ppl?

Ignore it and turn your back?

I'm curious as to why you imply a threat of pulling out of Welcomehome Camp, fasting and massaging ppl who are mice to you.
------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps you would like to trade massage? You might need it after helping folks in the parkinglot all week.

namaste'
-----------------------------------
H Heiman <grnwoodtree@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, Im by no means the 'organizer' here - I've got my small part to play...so I cant tell you what is definitely needed - Tom would be the one who would have a much clearer idea. I think he's been somewhat under the weather.

I agree regarding the protesting - when I first heard it, the idea was so appalling - driving into a gathering, and having discord and passive resistance right off the bat - it really bothered me - the whole atitude of it bothered me - but Im thinking these disabled folks are downright pissed...after years and years of being told 'if ya cant make it in, too bad'. So I can see thier point - which is part of the reason Im involved - I havent been to a gathering in years - and this one I was hoping to be a good, positive experince, filled with healing energy, and prayer. We are also planning on getting married there.

I guess there still is no place for idealism in the world - even within the RFOLL.

peace,
Holly
---------------------------------------------------------------
kevin jefferson <rastapatch@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to reiterate some of the details or your idea. Where do you desire to set up your station?
It is my hope to take part in a welcome home camp that is within the gathering, close enough to the circle to feel it, and far enough away from the parking lot to be sure you are at a rainbow gathering. Safe and quiet at night, cool and fun during the day.
In my vision, if there is enough folk energy at the camp, we would rotate folks into the parking lot to help direct folks towards the welcomehome camp, where there will be information about the basic layout of the gathering, and rest and refreshments.
Let me know if you want me to help your crew dig a shitter.

I think it is everybody responsibility to be co-operative, that includes many complex factors, one of which is asking in the right tone of voice.
I do not do protest. If there is any formal protesting i will leave the immediate area until it is over. If it continues, i will do massage under a tree at the edge of main medow.
Mother Theresa said, 'I will not attend an anti-anything rally, but if you have a pro-peace rally let me know.'

H Heiman <grnwoodtree@yahoo.com> wrote:
Yes - of course - I have posted about this a few times - and earlier today was one of them.

These arm bands are for ANGEL CAMP volunteers - which need to be at
Welcome Home camp - yes, very necessary, and very relevant.

There is a group of us here in CO who are working on making sure that the Disabled are not ignored this year - Tom Traveler,Wolfstar, myself, and others are involved in this. Due in part to the huge amount of activism put for by Tom, and all his efforts to instigate awareness, there may very well be a record turn-out of disabled folks this year!

I am making armbands SPECIFICALLY to identify 'Angels' (those who will provide entrance info to disabled folks as they drive in) These folks will need to make sure they are available when they say they will be, and will not be wandering! We are also working on having a pertinent Disabled-friendly guide to be handed out by the Angels - the angels will also give hands-on help if necessary, guiding folks to the places they need to be.

I hope this spells things out in enough detail for now - this is why I've asked twice now for volunteers who will be dedicated to being Angels. There's been rumors of a disabled-folk protest, and direct action at the gathering if they are not treated not only equally, but with respect. It seems this has been dearly lacking in the past - and when I've brought it up on other lists(will not specify names), I've been told various things, including that its their responsibility to figure out how to climb the hills and navigate rocks and gulleys - no sense of care or respect at all. This is pretty appalling to me - as I guess I've held a dear vision of Family caring and helping each other through all circumstances.

We are ALL Family,
peace,
Holly
Hey Now Brother Rastapatch, sorry I confused the word vow with the word hope, try not to get stuck on it. Sometimes your words read kinda hurtful. Somehow you made that word sweet sound so sour in your last post. Ouch.

Also, so *what* that I digressed onto accessible shitters on this thread, are you that bothered by it? I apologize. Geeze.

We are just asking for ppl to volunteer for a good Welcome Home for ppl who happen to have disabilites, evolve a little will ya!
SucculentFlower

View Public Profile

Send a private message to SucculentFlower

Find More Posts by SucculentFlower

Add SucculentFlower to Your Buddy List

Add note about user

View All of SucculentFlower's Images


O I forgot! Just my thoughts regarding this *protest*...I really don't think it'll happen.

If it did, it would be an organization like ADAPT that would show up. They are professionals. They demonstrate, get arrested, get bailed out and go home.

I don't think that Holly is reassured about this *almost/may happen* protest not really going down.

The point is tho-- what ARE ya going to do if say 350 ppl in wheelchairs show up? Which is the point. They *may* show up.

At first we thought that the *disability act* would motivate ya'll, but we learned (to *some* ppl's relief I'm sure) that the Gathering doesn't have to comply.

We are *just hoping* that some of ya'll will do the right thing, maybe without anyone asking you too. Your Mother would be proud!

 

This last part is funny. Sister if you have 350 people in wheelchairs show up, you would have the biggest and best run, most cohesive and well funded, best trained and most compassionate and well organised camp in the history of rainbow.

I have never seen 350 of anybody at a gathering. I am lucky if i can get my wife to vote with me at counsel. If you get 350 folks pointed the same way, i will get a pencil and record it for posterity, that's what i would do I will sit down and take a lesson from such a grand master.

 

I was referring to ADAPT showing up..which they'd most likely NOT stay but get arrested, post bond and the go home (to their homes)... so quit mocking me and grow up. You are being rude, and unsupportive.

But *like I said* it probably won't happen if there's good accessibility consciousness. That's what I keep trying to tell you.

Hey~ get off my back. I've been focalizing for this issue for awhile now. Just because you aren't totally abreast of the issue doesn't mean that it's not being handled. Regardless of what you think.

I apologize for not singing and dancing to serve your ego. I really know if the shit hits the fan, you'll be somewhere else for sure! But don't think twice, it's alright!

If you go back into the archives, I started threads before on this subject, it's an ongoing project.

I'm not going to bother with pulling them up for you, it's a waste of my time.

I won't bother you with the details of what's really going on with the focalizing.

I know that other ppl may want to volunteer. If so please p.m, me.

I know you'll do the right thing.

 

It's really no bother.

You are wrong about at least one thing though. I have been following the issue.

You are right about at least one thing though. If i see somebody throwing shit at a fan, i am going to step out of the way.

thanks for your confidence that i will do the right thing. It's inspiring.

 

I never accused you about not following the issue. I accused you of being oblivious because of your snide comments. ( a guess a better word would be non-compassionate) Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

I have been right on * several * things and you have a lack of acknowledgment. But that's okay.

The accessibility issue exists regardless of whether you are talked to in a manner that you are receptive to. I'm sorry that I don't speak your language correctly in the way you need me to.

My long time experience of working with ppl w/disabilities and dealing with elder folk and ppl in chronic pain is that you have to do the right thing even if they aren't communicating in a way that YOU find approval with.

If you are going to run under a tree and fast or step out of the way when the poo flies because someone is asking for help in a way that you don't * approve of *

I have to say: what if? What if someone who happened to have a disability and say used crutches (may be possible) fell down the stairs that were built for your shitter?

And that person was in pain. Would you ignore him/her until they communicated in that specific way you needed to hear?

My first instinct would be to offer a helping hand. Asking yo to just elevate your consciousness.

Another thing. Let's try to make it clear. ADAPT is an organization that specializes in organizing demonstrations for accessibility

--Mother Theresa said, 'I will not attend an anti-anything rally, but if you have a pro-peace rally let me know.'

For sure ADAPT would be a * pro-peace * rally ~ in the sense open your heart and make it accessible. It's not a * anti-anything *...

I think you would be for ADAPT and accessibility if you to google them and learn about them. Why alienate from them so quickly?

It has never ever been a offical agenda to call ADAPT onto the Welcome Home Gate--it was speculation back when we were figuring out if the gathering has to be accessible by law, which it doesn't we found out.

And another thing~ ADAPT was thought of because of callous/snide and flippant response from you and other ppl on other forums and potlucks. It *may* become real. I really don't think that it will. But there's nothing you can do about it. Other than get over your alienation and make your shitter accessible.

I am grateful that you : "The short story is i volunteered to work on a shitter at welcome home"

But take one more step and TRY to make it accessible, and THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN

here's a good quote for YOU "No matter how New Age you get, Old Age is still gonna get ya"- FryingPan Jack

 

It's obvious that i have a lot to learn from you. Thanks for your patience. It must be very frustrating for you to have to endure such a clunk head. The sad part is i still don't have any idea what you want out of me. Do you need a wetwipe or something?

You are so fervent that i must consider if i deserve your ire. I wish my vocabulary was sufficient to elucidate the gestalt of my ignorance, but alas i wither without effective transpiration in this microcosm.

Let me acknowledge now without any more prompting. You have been right on several things.

Now that it is clear that i do not know what i am talking about, and you do, i am sure the other 25,000 folks at the gathering will be at ease.

Listen sis, really; I am sorry that i have such a dumb sense of humor. I try to be funny, but it never works out. As i said already though, i am just trying to help. I will gladly dig where you want me to. Just say the word, and bring your pipe.
Oh, and a shovel. I actually never bring anything to the gathering except a pocket knife and a ball of string, and a box of candles, and a twenty for the magic hat.

 

hehhehehehehehehe,, this is like cookies kitchen..

hehheehehehe.....

deep breaths everyone,, whos gotta bowl??

luv n lite..

 

yeah it's nutty aint it? It is just like cookies kitchen.

Are we talking about the same cookie? A fellow that sometimes runs an oven called wolfs den?

I gotta nice bowl, but it's broken. How 'bout a cyber sp'ange? I will gladly dig on tuesday for a bowl'r two today. . . .

 

that be cookie..

he stayed here at the farm for a couple weeks a couple years back,, him an dilli didnt see eye to eye,, magine that..

tis all good,, weve spent much time with him since,,(just in rainbow land not here, )

yeah,, it seems a lot like cookies kitchen..

for me anyway,..

love n light brother..

 

luvin you...

 

And just like cookies kitchen, it just is what it is.

Oh and. . . thanks man. I won't forget this "ssswwwwoogogogogogogoaaaat"
" "

" snkkhkkg " ". .. " "nhhhn"

"wheeeewwwwhhoooohhh yeah, . ... . . man"

 

it always is what it is no matter whos kitchen it is.. love n light..

 

i feel i should clarify..

cookies welcome back here anytime,(as he is aware), just for 3 or 4 days..
..

we love cookie, an wed like to keep it that way..

love n light..

 

The sad part is i still don't have any idea what you want out of me.

What part of ~ Asking you to just elevate your consciousness -this is hard for you to understand? Getting clear enough yet?

Make your shitter accessible for ppl with a disability? Is that clear enough yet?
----------
Now about your spewing of the mouth;

Do you need a wet-wipe or something? I really think you are talking with your ass-hole w/ this one. Do yo kiss your mother with that mouth? Geez, what a misogynist.


You are so fervent that i must consider if i deserve your ire. ire.

--Nahh it woulda been nicer for you to have more compassion and elevate your consciousness.

---have you thought about the *ire* you've dished out today? hmmm?

I wish my vocabulary was sufficient to elucidate the gestalt of my ignorance, but alas i wither without effective transpiration in this microcosm.

Watch out ! Your Karma is running over your Dogma!

Please don't patronize me. Why do yo do this? Do you thrive on being hurtful?

Do YOU need a wet-wipe? What does this mean? This is funny? Please help me understand your suffering.

Now that it is clear that i do not know what i am talking about, and you do, i am sure the other 25,000 folks at the gathering will be at ease.

-- another example of your hate, why are you so base in your mentality?

Listen sis, really; I am sorry (I'm having a hard time believing your b.s.) that i have such a dumb sense of humor. I try to be funny, but it never works out.(if you perhaps came from some other place than hate, you'd be funny) As i said already though, i am just trying to help. I will gladly dig where you want me to.

Ahh so now you admit that you know what I'm talking about--listen it's your shitter you figure it out

Just say the word, and bring your pipe. --won't happen ever, seems like you've indulged enough today.

"I hope your hungry because someday you are going to eat all those words you said."--- Ani Defranco

 

um to take a chill pill?

to agree to dissagree?
um to not stand on a soap box in a open forum an show what ya may not like in a week or two?



theres one thing to stand strong for a arguement,, theres another to take it to extremes..

hmm,, maybee this shoulda stayed in the A camp thread??


this is just fucked up flower..
look what ya doin???

 

I hope you have said all the things you wanted to say today.

MY offer still stands, i will HELP you dig YOUR shitter. Since you are always so nice to me.

 

an you mister rasta patch..

you should be spanked as well..

damn exhabishinists.. itsbits an pieces..

man yall have fun this year,,..



luv n lite..

 

? ? ? ?

I am lost as to what i did besides make a bad joke. I didn't know they could spank you for that.

Man i am in big trouble. Do you know how many bad jokes i have documented on the internet?

 

man i could give a fuck less,, im leavin this kitchen..

i hope i didnt rub noone the wrong way..

im wound down,, preciate the intellectuall input,,.. its been real its beenfun,, but now its time to go enjoy the rest of my family..,,

at least those that are in the flesh here,..

see yall tomorrow..

no throwin of pots ,err toilet seats in the kitchen..

luv n light..