UPDATE: [ 4th March ] I have put together an example site, as a basis for discussion and criticism. Here's the link => hl.afraid.org UPDATE: [ 2nd Septeber ] I just came across a site called BorrowMe.com (..see post #6 below) - it is basically putting the idea discussed below into practice. I'm not saying that I don't have reservations, or a healthy degree of skepticism, about the (centralised) way they're doing it, but it's very interesting nonetheless. UPDATE: [2nd January 2008] Since last posting here, I have discovered 2 projects that I think deserve mentioning: Whopools.net - resource sharing the freeconomy community - has sections for skillsharing, toolsharing and landsharing I think they may both be worth joining. ------------------------- I'll try to express the idea behind this thread by means of example: A man buys a shovel for about thirty euro. It is for a once-off job. He uses it for between fifteen and thirty minutes; and it's quite likely that he'll never use it again. When finished using it, he has two choices. He can either: leave it in the shed where it is currently, where - while other people will quite likely be out buying the very same item which they also will only use on a handful of occasions in their lifetime - it will quite possibly remain unused for an entire decade; or let someone else use it - i.e. share it! ----------------------- Practical mathematics! It seems ironic to me, as well as unfortunate, that so many people spend years in school learning relatively-complex mathematics, yet - with the exception of simple arithmetic used for budget-planning and other monetary matters - rarely use these mathematical skills in their daily lives; or at least don't use them to the extent that they could. While there may be an intellectual elitism associated with careers requiring a deep understanding of mathematics, it seems that arithmetic relating directly to more 'mundane' affairs is held in less regard! Perhaps it's due time to reevaluate it's importance? To relate to this to the example I gave above: There are 50 people in a community. Each person, on average, uses a shovel for three hours per year. The first extreme possibility is that the people buy one shovel each - 50 shovels in total; the second extreme possibility is that they buy one shovel amongst the entire community! From the point of view of time and energy efficiency, and responsible use of resources, a reality which is closer to the latter scenario is obviously the more desirable! I could think of numerous other examples if I had the time and inclination - but I think/hope you get the point! What I'm trying to get at (..at least I think this one of the things I was trying to get at ) is that humans have the intellectual ability to make their economy more efficient - and it seems to me that sharing items which are suitable for sharing is a viable, and perfectly sensible, way to do so! In examples such as the one give above, even a child could do the arithmetic! ----------------------- FreeCycle initiative gives hope ... What I'm thinking of is similar to the FreeCycle idea, except that - rather than people giving things to others for an indefinite length of time - the idea is that people would keep an item only for as long as they actually need it. It could be done via a bulletin board in a community centre; or a community website; or both! Such a concept could only apply to certain types of items of course. There are - what seem to me to be - legitimate arguments against communal ownership; for example: some items are unsuitable for sharing due to the frequency with which they are used by each, or a certain, individual some items are unsuitable for sharing for hygiene reasons - e.g. a toothbrush! Having said that, I think there are a large number of items which it makes good sense to 'share'. In fact, there are a number of items in my room right now which are suitable for sharing (or giving away altogether) - a bag of audio cables I'm not using presently; a disc-man that my brother left behind when he went abroad (I can listen to music on my hand-held computer); two luggage bags that I have no use for; gym equipment (again, my brother left it behind); a wardrobe I don't need; a watch I don't need etc.. --------------------------- This can probably be justifiably criticized on a number of points (go easy - please!), but I hope that it will at least get a positively-charge debate going! Perhaps a clearer form can be chiseled from this rather crude presentation! Perhaps it would be beautiful! So, what do you people think? ( ...waits for thread to fall flat on it's face ; sheds a tear) (If you do respond, please just be polite!)
It's a good idea...efficiency is always a good idea. The main problem I would think of is honesty. I've let alot of people borrow things and the things often don't come back to me. There's a huge chance that would happen. Someone would abuse the system,in other words...they would take things and never return them or they would keep things longer than they should. So,you would have to figure out a way around that,or figure out a system to keep things in order. I read an interesting article in a magazine not long ago. There were a group of ladies,all of them running households..all of them had children..and they all lived in the same neighborhood. They came up with a system,to make themselves more efficient by working together. One example,was that each lady had a certain day of the week to cook. She would cook enough food for each family,for that day....that way,each lady only had to cook one day a week. Does that make sense? I'm not very good with explaining. Another thing they divided up,was carpooling the kids to activities...each lady had a day designated for her to be the driver...same with babysitting the kids. They also bought food in bulk together,so they could save more money. Anyways,it was a really interesting read and it's good to know some people are doing things like this,even in regular residential areas. It's not the same as what you were talking about...but it's still a good example of how people in a community could work together to be more efficient,time and money wise.
Emmm ... in a thread that you started yourself, you wrote: Well that's what I'm trying to do here - but it seems that you're trying to knock me! Sauntering in to the discussion, with tongue-in-cheek, and basically telling someone that their ideas are bogus, really isn't a very "positive" action at all. At least offer reasons why you think "it won't happen"! In an attempt to preempt what I suspect is a likely argument to be raised - the incorrigible greed and nastiness of human nature - let me clarify: I'm not advocating that everyone be included in these ventures; off the top of my head, I can think of no reason why the 'bad apples' ought not be weaned out of the group! So often, what people deem a 'realistic' view is actually hindered by a lamentable lack of foresight and a failure to thoroughly evaluate an idea - maybe this is such a case; maybe not! But I think it's at least worth discussing! I believe that there is a lot of sense in searching for more 'sane' alternatives to our current economic practices; and perhaps 'experimenting' on a small-scale - in a 'safe' environment - with various ideas. BTW, did you even consider the example of the FreeCycle idea I mentioned? P.S. Wondergirl, thanks for your post. I'll try to respond when I have more time!
Man, im not knocking you. I think its a good idea, a very efficient one and it would be a good way of people building trust towards eachother and being more of a community, but I mean in realistic terms..It wouldnt happen. People cant even stick to simple things like borrowing library books. Youve obviously put thought to it, great job at it too.. Il check out the free cycle site.
I came across a very interesting site this morning: BorrowMe.com - 'find, borrow, lend, swap and track almost anything with people you can trust' Unlike the FreeCycle Network, this will be a 'centralized' system. Some people might have a problem with that - personally I don't have a well-defined opinion on whether it's a good thing or not overall. It's scheduled to open on September 15th - it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. ---- I'm actually glad you mentioned libraries insight_m. Even though - as you said - the occasional person might not return books, the majority of people do. To me it seems that libraries provide an obvious 'proof of concept' for the idea of a lending community. If books can be shared, why not other things?
there is long tradition in europe of so-called ''machine rings'' in rural areas. people buys expensive agricultural machines and share them, 10 or 20 farms can use one harvester, 2-3 tractors and so on, becouse that machines are in usage only couple of days per farm per seasonal work. they sit together and arrange schedule for usage. that way, 'rings' can afford even most expensive machines with minimum cost per house. that way of thinking is one of the cores of communitarism - agricultural or others.
I've been thinking a bit about the group of ladies you mentioned Wonder_Girl - who took turns in cooking, bought food in bulk etc.. Some of it sounds like what this list of 'FoodShare' groups is doing. It seems to be a good idea. All the best
In attempt to convey more clearly what I've written about in this thread, I've put together an example/test site => Item and service lending and borrowing I want to use it as a basis for discussion to begin with. If people think the idea is plausible, it might develop into an experiment in co-operative economics. Comments and criticisms are welcome (..as long as they're polite!). Here's the link again: hl.afraid.org
So you could really step that out there and lets say there really os no real need for a person to have one wife or husband, just borrow em and same as homes, I mean some ppl have vacation homes and well let ppl borrow it when your gone, how about jobs, I mean when you dont want to work or made enough money that week, lend out your job. Sorry you had some great ideas there, just my mind went a little wild there.
(I'm aware this thread is very old, but I don't think there's much point in starting a new thread on the very same topic. I hope no one minds.) I've discovered two worthwhile projects in the last year or so, and I just wanted to mention them to anyone who is interested. They both implement the idea I mentioned in my first post. WhoPools.net - an "online tool for resource sharing" Free Economy - has sections for skill-sharing, tool-sharing and space-sharing
