Question for intelligent Christians

Let me give you some background... Raised Catholic and conservative, the last couple years however I have begun to question everything I have been raised to believe. I have realized I have some problems with the Christian philosophy. i tried to sum them up as coherently as I could, but I couldn't do it perfectly. I'm 16 now, which is pinnacle for deciding my beliefs, and I was wondering if someone could intelligently respond to this?

The Christian God doesn’t make sense to me. Can you put this in perspective for me? Alright, so, he gives us ignorant minds, free will, and leaves us in a world where he is seemingly absent (besides a 2000 year old book that no one knows the true origin of, and that professes to be the Word of God). He then expects us to believe in Him with our ignorant, biased minds, though the only evidence to his existence is his so called revelation to us depicted in said 2000 year old book. He expects this because we are supposed to have faith, and when our minds don't receive the right information and are clouded by emotions, upbringing differences, etc that leads us to believe there is no God, he damns the people that come to that conclusion. It doesn't make sense to me. If God truly is like that, I was born for pain; for I must either believe in and worship an irrational God, or be damned for eternity in hell.
I know we are supposed to have faith, but I hate the faith argument so much it because doesn't make sense to me. Why would God arrange things like that? It’s literally like Santa Clause saying "Even though logic, science, and emotion led you not to believe in me, I exist, and a friendship with me is essential to your happiness. If you did not want to be my friend before knowing I existed, even though after you have met me you would like to be my friend, I don’t want to be your friend because you did not want to be my friend before meeting me. Therefore, if you did not want to be my friend before meeting me, I am denying you happiness."

Like okay this is my stance... God expects us to make this decision regarding faith that determines our whole eternal fate... And when our minds, clouded by ignorance, emotion, bias, etc make the wrong decision, instead of understanding we cannot have the fullness of the truth with our simple minds or even begin to make the right decision, he damns the people that make the wrong decision to hell.

Am I right in saying such a God is irrational, and unjust, along with being benevolent and unmerciful? Reason leads me to believe either such a God doesn’t exist or He/She DOES accept people who do not believe in Him.

 

Just hit the east side of the LBC....
on a mission tryna find mr warren G

 

I'd bet on the latter. Saint Justin Martyr said long ago that those who live according to reason (including Socrates and other great pagan philosophers) are Christian, even if they were considered atheists. Another possibility is that God exists but is different from the wrathful Sky God depicted in a literal reading of that "2000 year old book" (it's actually much older than that), which I think is a collection of human efforts to comprehend the incomprehensible. God is Love. I consider God and Christianity to be the most important things in my life--the major source of meaning and moral values that I try to live my life by. But I take a historical-metaphorical view of the Bible, and believe that God communicates to us in other ways: e.g., reason, intuition,experience, and yes, faith. Dr. Dale Martin, Professor of Religious Studies at Yale, argues that Scripture is not a text ,but rather "the Bible, in whatever form a Christian holds it, read in faith and by the leading of the Holy Spirit". To start with the text puts the cart before the horse. I'd start with Jesus, invoke His name, and open your heart to the Holy Spirit, who will answer your questions (which, by the way, are very good ones).

 

First the “Hell” you speak of is a pagan concept and is not found a concept found in the Bible and so God does not “damn people to Hell”.

Second, the Bible defines Faith as the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. (Hebrews 11:1) So what is called “Blind Faith” is also not a Bible concept and God wants us to use our powers of reason to know him.

And last this whole “If you did not want to be my friend before knowing I existed, even though after you have met me you would like to be my friend, I don’t want to be your friend because you did not want to be my friend before meeting me. Therefore, if you did not want to be my friend before meeting me, I am denying you happiness.” thing.
The Bible says; (1 John 4:10) The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
(1 John 4:19) As for us, we love, because he first loved us.

 

I am glad you are asking questions, even though I cannot answer them. God wants you to ask questions, God LIKES doubt, as doubt leads to questions and questions to answers and answers to understanding, understanding leads to true faith, as opposed to blind faith.

What I can say is that all you need to do is believe in a LOVING God, regardless of weather you have ever read the Bible ect ect, and believe that this LOVING God, will do whatever he can to save you and to help you. The rest is details.

I say the Bible is a story meant to show you God's love, religion tended to treat this story as a rule book instead of a storybook. A fact based storybook doesn't make a rule book, but for it to be a rule book it's fact based nature must be proven. This causes lots and lots of strife between groups who believe in it's fact based nature and requires more evidence. If one accepts it as a storybook, and doesn't care weather it be fact based or not, one tends to look at the bigger picture rather than the details.

In any case, I did not find God through reading the Bible, I found God through his creation. I found God through the wonders of nature.

The rest, as I said, is details.

 

The idea that there is a moral code that you must follow is a distortion.

Judge not lest ye be judged, is a statement regarding this very issue. To judge in this regard is to evaluate worthiness. The worlds idea is that we use good judgement of the world and our fellows in order to extract best value from things. However, for this judgement to be truly good it would have to account for every conceivable history and future potentiality, account for every single effect of that judgement as it winds it's way through the fabric of this world.

Christs idea on the other hand is that only god is the measure of goodness and that we should not use our powers of distinction to adjudicate what can only be the province of god. Not only is it unwise but foolhardy to base our reactions, requests, and focus of will on the illusion of soundness, (good judgement).

Rather we use our powers of distinction for circumspection. To distinguish one thing from another, then we can see for sure whether to go left or go right. The 'truth' or accurate picture of the world is useful to keep us from falling into holes. The truth sets us free. The truth does not bind us to slavish
domination of a "sinful" nature.

We learn to ask the question true or false, instead of right or wrong, good or evil.

 

Much of the way Christianity is taught today is really dumbed down, and this is for the convenience of the establishment. Its not doubting the Bible that sends you to hell. Its denying Christ's gift of salvation that sends you to hell. Now allow me to explain what his gift really means, which most church's don't go into detail about.

The greatest reality is one of love. It may be hard to believe this, but when you really look at the whole of the cosmos, all things are interconnected. Realizing our interconnection to the whole and others is really the basis of love. The whole of the cosmos is one continuum, so therefore God = Love.

The fallen nature of man is one in which we've forgotten our connection to the integrated whole. We instead see life through an ego bias, and falsely see ourselves as distinctly separate from everything else. Our egoistic ignorance is what allows us to kill one another, as well as poison the environment around us. In the grand scheme, this is as insane as someone cutting their own hand off. If one abandons a life lived by hatred and fear and adopts and accepts the kind of love Christ had for humanity, they can reform their selves and find salvation. Just as Jesus was willing to spread peace, love, and compassion, to the very end, even though his love wasn't returned, we must have this kind of love too.

Many people just act nice for social reasons, but the moment they think no one is looking they do all the wicked things they've always wanted to do. Just look at the looting that goes on during blackouts or how violent people act during societal breakdowns in places like Libya or Rwanda. Rome was convinced of their superiority to the "barbarians", but when their civilization collapsed, people within Rome ended up resorting to cannibalism when the food shipments were disrupted. Now, genuine people with the heart of Christ wouldn't resort to that, because they understand that were all united with the holy light of love.

Being a Christian means being Christ-like. A Christ was also someone who was anointed. In ancient Israel, anointing oils were infused with medicinal herbs that would heal sores and illness. You may have noticed that the anointing oil is rubbed over the forehead. This is to symbolize the healing of the third eye or pineal gland, which is associated with mystical experiences that can lead one to knowledge of their oneness with the cosmos.

"There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.(TLB, Matthew 5:43-48)

"For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.(NAS, Matthew 6:14-15)

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (I John 4:8)

Matthew 22

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
​

 

The Catholics have their own Bible. They preach Mary worship, pergatory where you pay to release your relatives, they are pagan in origin and not Biblical. You might need to read another Bible that has not been changed and had books added to it. I went to a Catholic school and had more questions than answers. Just a thought. Hope you find the answers you need. I agree in asking for answers and have no doubt that the Holy Spirit will answer you. I have nothing against Catholics, there are a lot of sincere people in the Church. I question the non Biblical concepts though.

 

A decision is not what saves. It's Jesus. Even faith is a gift and God creates a new heart in people that desire to know him.

 

I just want to comment on your point about God not being obviously there. I would disagree with this assumption. The bible is not the only evidence for God's existence, nor is it the strongest. The strongest evidence for God is the integrated complexity of the universe, the fact that this universe had a beginning, and the fact that human beings have an inherit sense of what is right and what is wrong. All five of our senses and our moral conscience testify to the existence of a good God.

The bible affirms that everyone deep down knows that God exists. This is why people often call out to God when their life is in immediate danger. That's how I became a Christian actually, because God moved in my life when that happened. So yes, deep down we all know he exists, but we suppress this knowledge because generally we don't like him. God is good, and that is our problem, because we are not good. What's a good God gonna do with evil human beings? This problem is why we need Jesus and why he laid down his life and suffered the justice of God on our behalf.

And remember, Christianity is not religion, it's not about rule keeping, and its not about rituals and doctrine. It's a relationship with the one real God, its giving him a leading role in your life. Christianity is loving God and human beings even when its tough. We all fall short morally, but there is no condemnation for anyone who puts their trust in Christ for salvation, anything you do wrong after coming to faith will never be held against you. However, God will work in your soul to convict you of wrong doing and encourage you to do good.

Hope this answered some of the questions.

 

Well, I'll own up to being a dirty little creature if God owns up to being a dirty little creature creator.

I mean, if a tree is known by its fruit, and we be the fruits of God, then what does that say about God?

 

I think the best way to get close to God, and to believe in him, is to not pay attention to anything else. If we live without the distractions of the modern world, then we have God. I've been contemplating joining a convent just to focus on God.

 

Keeping to yourself then is the way to hone your focus. If you join a convent, you will be challenged to uphold the politics and aspirations of the order you choose. Distractions are a lack of focus.

 

the title of this thread is a contradiction.. i wouldn't waste your time..

 

I'm yo huckleberry. I am contradicting your statement.

 

If by "have" you mean that we are aware of then I agree.

 

. i'm going to leave now and null this statement have a good day yall christians

 

Don't ever feel pressured to decide anything philosophical, at any age.

 

i'm not sure its a case of external pressure. the desire for understanding is inherent in the human condition and becomes stronger in adolescence. i first started to formalise my own beliefs at the same age, not an easy process, but a very rewarding one, and one without end.

 

Sometimes I think people get the cart before the horse in a sense. (BTW and this is not meant to be offensive to you, the OP, in any way, at 16 years old you are a little young to be just discounting the ideas of faith okay?) Here something that comes to my mind. I am a father. I have a 13 year old son. Now the kid thinks he knows it ALL...but obviously he DOES NOT! I have to tell him sometimes things to do and things not to do and sometimes I have to get loud or ugly or etc....but it is because I love him and don't want him to be unsafe or in danger,etc. God is like that with us too. So He decided to use a Book that is very very OLD and that is controversial to say the least and He also uses imperfect humans to tell His message and guide His people! I can relate the way God works to the way a parent works with small children. Just my two! Wait until you are about 40 something before you write all this off as "superstition" etc.